Brasidas said:
Are u theaching me English? :rofl:
hahahahaha :rofl:
I had a god laugh thou... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Have you never been wrong??
I ment "Overstatement"!
Portugal Discovered all the new world! Others just came along...
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Are u theaching me English? :rofl:
hahahahaha :rofl:
I had a god laugh thou... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Have you never been wrong??
I ment "Overstatement"!
I beleive the thread topic is Portugal's track record for exploration relative to other countries -- thus posts that discuss explorers and areas explored are relevant; but arguments about who kicked who's butt or the correct formal use of the English language is not. If the discussion of the thread topic continues then I'll leave it open. If the dicussion continues to move towards OT (or borderline trolling) as it has been, I'll close it.
The choice is yours.
The choice is yours.
MrT said:
Sorry... u'r rite!
So.....
how about the this:
Will Portugal be a Major Country or not?.....anyone?
I find it quite bizarre that in a forum like this, no one has any clue about the origins of Columbus when it's quite clear that he's Greek.
1) Columbus' signature "Xpo-Ferens" (Christophoros), is Greek-Latin (Byzantine).
2) Columbus spelled Chios with a Greek X -- Xios.
3) Columbus marked the corner of his letters with a Greek X for Xios or Xpo-Ferens, his name.
4) Columbus named Cape Maysi in Cuba by the Greek words "Alpha and Omega."
5) Columbus never asked Italy for ships or aid or food or shelter when he needed help.
6) Columbus never spoke or read Italian. [Lionel Cecil Jane -- "[he] could not speak or write Italian." (Select Documents Illustrating the Four Voyages of Columbus. Hakluyt Society. London, 1930.)]
7) Columbus made markings of Greek words on the margins of his favorite book, Imago Mundi, by Cardinal Pierre d'Ailly.
8) Columbus was called "Genoese" because he was from Chios, which belonged to Genoa, and he dressed in the Genoese style.
9) Columbus called himself, and signed documents, "Columbus de Terra Rubra" (Columbus of the Red Earth), because of the red earth of southern Chios where the mastic tree grows.
10) Columbus banked at St. George Bank in Genoa, along with other Genoese Chiotes, because:
a) Chios was a colony of Genoa.
b) Chios had been Genoese for almost 150 years (since 1346).
11) In Chios, over the doors of some homes in places like Pyrghi and Cimbouri, one can still see the name KOLOMVOS inscribed.
12) Columbus called himself "Colon," and wrote that he sailed with a royal kinsman who also had that name.
13) Columbus kept "a secret accurate reckoning" and two logs. The author shows that his "secret reckoning" was in Greek leagues, whereas his "official log" was in Roman leagues.
14) Ferdinand could find no sign of the Christopher Colombo family when he searched for it high and low in Genoa. These were supposedly the relatives of Christopher Columbus, but Ferdinand wrote that "I have not been able to find out how or where [they] live."
15) There is a village named Pirgi in the island of Chios where to this day many of its inhabitants carry the surname "Colombus."
This would accord with Columbus' desire to keep his identity concealed, as did many Orthodox Christian Greeks who'd migrated to Catholic Italy before and after Constantinople's fall to the Turks in 1453, and who wished to avoid persecution in their new surroundings. Columbus referred to Chios many times in his Journal, and also to the mastic gum which is cultivated only on this island in the world, and which grows in its red soil.
Signature of Columbus:
The reliance on two principle sources (though many others are also cited), written by persons who had actually seen Columbus' original Journal, are the main basis of the author's thesis. One is Columbus' second son Ferdinand -- who had sailed with his father -- whose life work was collecting books about Columbus for his extensive library, and who wrote The Fourth Voyage of Columbus, as well as The Life Of The Admiral, Christopher Columbus. The other was the famous Historia De Las Indies, by Bishop de las Casas -- who had also sailed with Columbus. These two sources, according to Durlacher-Wolper, are the most reliable because their authors had sailed with the great mariner, and knew him well. Columbus' son, Ferdinand, was known to have complained repeatedly that there were many lies and falsehoods being written and disseminated about his father. His chosen mission in life was to clear up the many misconceptions, and to let the truth be known. Bishop de las Casas, confirmed that Columbus "was of the Genoese nation," but would never utilize the Genoese language in his writings, and would refer to himself as "Columbus de Terra Rubra," ("Columbus of the Red Earth"). He also wrote that "more precise information as to his actual birthplace [was never forthcoming"], but that he claimed his ancestors "had always followed the sea." It is worthy of note that Chios Island is known for its red soil, and that Chiotes have -- since time immemorial -- been famous as seafarers and fleet owners.
Samuel Eliot Morison, the eminent historian, confirms Columbus' "ardent enthusiasm for seafaring," and wrote, in his book, Admiral of the Ocean Sea (Little, Brown, & Co., Boston. 1942), that Columbus first took to the sea in the early 1460s, and that he made "many voyages to Chios in the Aegean," where he learned to "hand reef, and steer, to estimate distance by eye, to let go and weigh anchor properly, and all other elements of seamanship." Also, that he was a "ruddy-complexioned redhead, with blue eyes." His son Ferdinand wrote that Columbus gave himself the name "Christophoros" because "... in Greek it means one who bears Christ," and "[my father] had carried Christ over deep waters with great danger to himself ... that the Indian nations might become dwellers in the triumphant Church of Heaven."
1) Columbus' signature "Xpo-Ferens" (Christophoros), is Greek-Latin (Byzantine).
2) Columbus spelled Chios with a Greek X -- Xios.
3) Columbus marked the corner of his letters with a Greek X for Xios or Xpo-Ferens, his name.
4) Columbus named Cape Maysi in Cuba by the Greek words "Alpha and Omega."
5) Columbus never asked Italy for ships or aid or food or shelter when he needed help.
6) Columbus never spoke or read Italian. [Lionel Cecil Jane -- "[he] could not speak or write Italian." (Select Documents Illustrating the Four Voyages of Columbus. Hakluyt Society. London, 1930.)]
7) Columbus made markings of Greek words on the margins of his favorite book, Imago Mundi, by Cardinal Pierre d'Ailly.
8) Columbus was called "Genoese" because he was from Chios, which belonged to Genoa, and he dressed in the Genoese style.
9) Columbus called himself, and signed documents, "Columbus de Terra Rubra" (Columbus of the Red Earth), because of the red earth of southern Chios where the mastic tree grows.
10) Columbus banked at St. George Bank in Genoa, along with other Genoese Chiotes, because:
a) Chios was a colony of Genoa.
b) Chios had been Genoese for almost 150 years (since 1346).
11) In Chios, over the doors of some homes in places like Pyrghi and Cimbouri, one can still see the name KOLOMVOS inscribed.
12) Columbus called himself "Colon," and wrote that he sailed with a royal kinsman who also had that name.
13) Columbus kept "a secret accurate reckoning" and two logs. The author shows that his "secret reckoning" was in Greek leagues, whereas his "official log" was in Roman leagues.
14) Ferdinand could find no sign of the Christopher Colombo family when he searched for it high and low in Genoa. These were supposedly the relatives of Christopher Columbus, but Ferdinand wrote that "I have not been able to find out how or where [they] live."
15) There is a village named Pirgi in the island of Chios where to this day many of its inhabitants carry the surname "Colombus."
This would accord with Columbus' desire to keep his identity concealed, as did many Orthodox Christian Greeks who'd migrated to Catholic Italy before and after Constantinople's fall to the Turks in 1453, and who wished to avoid persecution in their new surroundings. Columbus referred to Chios many times in his Journal, and also to the mastic gum which is cultivated only on this island in the world, and which grows in its red soil.
Signature of Columbus:
The reliance on two principle sources (though many others are also cited), written by persons who had actually seen Columbus' original Journal, are the main basis of the author's thesis. One is Columbus' second son Ferdinand -- who had sailed with his father -- whose life work was collecting books about Columbus for his extensive library, and who wrote The Fourth Voyage of Columbus, as well as The Life Of The Admiral, Christopher Columbus. The other was the famous Historia De Las Indies, by Bishop de las Casas -- who had also sailed with Columbus. These two sources, according to Durlacher-Wolper, are the most reliable because their authors had sailed with the great mariner, and knew him well. Columbus' son, Ferdinand, was known to have complained repeatedly that there were many lies and falsehoods being written and disseminated about his father. His chosen mission in life was to clear up the many misconceptions, and to let the truth be known. Bishop de las Casas, confirmed that Columbus "was of the Genoese nation," but would never utilize the Genoese language in his writings, and would refer to himself as "Columbus de Terra Rubra," ("Columbus of the Red Earth"). He also wrote that "more precise information as to his actual birthplace [was never forthcoming"], but that he claimed his ancestors "had always followed the sea." It is worthy of note that Chios Island is known for its red soil, and that Chiotes have -- since time immemorial -- been famous as seafarers and fleet owners.
Samuel Eliot Morison, the eminent historian, confirms Columbus' "ardent enthusiasm for seafaring," and wrote, in his book, Admiral of the Ocean Sea (Little, Brown, & Co., Boston. 1942), that Columbus first took to the sea in the early 1460s, and that he made "many voyages to Chios in the Aegean," where he learned to "hand reef, and steer, to estimate distance by eye, to let go and weigh anchor properly, and all other elements of seamanship." Also, that he was a "ruddy-complexioned redhead, with blue eyes." His son Ferdinand wrote that Columbus gave himself the name "Christophoros" because "... in Greek it means one who bears Christ," and "[my father] had carried Christ over deep waters with great danger to himself ... that the Indian nations might become dwellers in the triumphant Church of Heaven."
There is already a thread discussing Portugal as a country. Use it.Crespo_Portugal said:
Thank you for trying to drag this thread back on topic.Tunch Khan said:
Some interesting information there.
But...
He did receive 50% of his funding from Genoese sources...
That's a fascinating read, Tunch Khan
It's lovely to think that the Greeks discovered the New World.
It's lovely to think that the Greeks discovered the New World.
Like i said.... He was Geneoan but is heart was portuguese!
If stay long enough in a country wont you consider your self like belonging there?
So just read this:
Christopher Columbus was born in Genoa, Italia, in 1451, to a family of wool weavers.
He became an experienced sailor and moved to Lisbon, Portugal to try and gain support for a new journey he was planning. He visited the courts of the kings and queens of Europe asking for help and money. Finally King Ferdinand and Isabella, the king and queen of Spain, agreed to support him.
In the 15th and 16th centuries, the Europeans wanted to find sea routes to the East. Columbus wanted to find a new route to the Far East, to India, China, Japan and the Spice Islands, to bring back rich cargoes of silks and spices. Columbus knew that the world was round and realised that by sailing west, instead of east around the coast of Africa, as other explorers at the time were doing, he would still reach the East and the rich Spice Islands. Columbus thought that by sailing west he would find a quicker and easier route to the East. He thought that the earth was smaller than it is, and like all other Europeans at that time, he did not know about the existence of America.
In 1492 Columbus set sail from Palos in Spain with three ships : the Niña, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. He landed on an island in the Bahamas which he named San Salvador, and claimed the island for the king and queen of Spain. Columbus called all the people he met in the islands Indians because he was sure that he had reached the Indies. When Columbus reached Cuba, he thought it was the mainland of Japan. On Christmas Day 1492, the Santa Maria hit a rock and was wrecked. Columbus transferred to the Niña and left behind the crew members of the Santa Maria on the island of Hispaniola (now divided into Haiti and the Dominican Republic). He wanted them to start a new settlement, which he called the Navidad ("Christmas"). Columbus reached Spain in March 1493, claimed his reward in riches, and was made Admiral of the Ocean Sea and Governor of the Indies.
On a second, larger expedition, from 1493 to 1496 he sailed around Hispaniola and along the length of southern Cuba to find gold and capture Indians as slaves, which irritated Queen Isabella. During his return, he faced a frightful storm during which he was again separated from the Pinta, when he had to moor in Lisbon, Portugal. He arrived at Palos, Spain, in March, 1493.
In the third expedition, from 1498 to 1500, in which Columbus sailed farther south, to Trinidad and Venezuela, the monarchs decided upon sending to Haiti an officer to investigate and to punish the people who would treat the Indians with inhuman customs, and in 1500, Columbus is arrested and sent home in chains.
In 1502, after his liberation, Columbus made a fourth and last expedition, sailed to Mexico, Honduras, Panama and Santiago. He landed on the South American mainland, but he never did set foot on the mainland of North America.
Columbus died in 1506, in Valladolid, Spain, still believing that he had found a new route to the East Indies.
* His place in the Barks/Rosa stories universe :
First, in "Mystery of the Swamp", Donald tells he'd want to be an explorer such as Colombus or Drake.
In "Luck of the North", Donald finds an old map in a Viking ship which is said to have been used to discover America, long before Colombus. But we're not told whether the Viking is Leif Eriksson (Erik the Red's son who is said to have discovered America), Olaf the Blue (another Viking from Barks' "The Golden Helmet" who is said to have discovered America in 901, before Leif), or another Viking...
In "Island in the Sky", in which Scrooge is searching for a desert asteroid to hide his money, he discovers little people, who treat Scrooge as did the Indians with Colombus.
In "Isle of Golden Geese", when Scrooge presents an old cannon to defend himself against Magica and the Beagle Boys, Huey tells that it's "the last thing sold at every rummage sale since Colombus".
In "Interplanetary Postman", when Scrooge leaves Duckburg for Venus in a Rocket, he's told by a guy in a plane "May the spirits of the Vikings, of Colombus, and of the men of the Pony Express be with you, Mister McDuck!"
In "Guardians of the Lost Library", it's said that Colombus, also called Christobal Colon in Spain, had been helped by the Lost Library of Alexandria, which Lorenzo de Medicis made him buy when he was a bookseller, to find "the route to the East Indies". He had to hide the books for Medicis not to get them, and in 1498, he took them to his manor in Hispaniola island, but finally, King Ferdinand of Spain learnt about the books and made him come back to Spain (that would be the true reason why Colombus had been imprisoned and put in irons and removed his title in 1450). It is told that he died in poverty and never recovered the books.
In "The Lost Charts of Columbus", a sequel of the story above, Huey, Dewey and Louie find in a manuscript of the first Guidebook of the Canadian Junior Woodchucks some maps of parts of America which helped Colombus to find " the route to the East Indies" he must have got from the books of the Lost Library : One map of Florida from 1492 byJoao Vas Corte-Real, one of Mississippi by Prince Madoc of Wales from 1170, the one of Olaf the Blue from 901, one of the Irish abbot Brendan from the 600s, and one of the Chinese explorer Hui-Jen from 459 (Colombus copied this one from a book of Marco Polo). The Nephews finally find an older map in Cleopatra's tomb, by a Phenician from 425 before Christ.
In "The Crown of the Crusader Kings", Scrooge finds Colombus' lost logbook (when Bartolomeu Dias, Colombus' Portuguese rival, took his boat in Lisbonne, Colombus gave it to a sailor who was supposed to bring it to the King, which he didn't do; so, when Colombus was back to Spain, he told his memories to the Queen's scribe, whose writing was the only source of information about the trip, so far). Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld had bought it in 1878 and lost it in Brutopia in the same year. Reading the book, Scrooge sees it speaks about the day of Christmas, 1492, when the Santa Maria hit a rock, and also of a crown hidden by a Templar. In the same story we learn that the Templars, who had relations with the kings Ferdinand of Spain and John II of Portugal, sponsored Colombus' trip, because he had to give a crown to the Great Khan, in Cathay (China).
If stay long enough in a country wont you consider your self like belonging there?
So just read this:
Christopher Columbus was born in Genoa, Italia, in 1451, to a family of wool weavers.
He became an experienced sailor and moved to Lisbon, Portugal to try and gain support for a new journey he was planning. He visited the courts of the kings and queens of Europe asking for help and money. Finally King Ferdinand and Isabella, the king and queen of Spain, agreed to support him.
In the 15th and 16th centuries, the Europeans wanted to find sea routes to the East. Columbus wanted to find a new route to the Far East, to India, China, Japan and the Spice Islands, to bring back rich cargoes of silks and spices. Columbus knew that the world was round and realised that by sailing west, instead of east around the coast of Africa, as other explorers at the time were doing, he would still reach the East and the rich Spice Islands. Columbus thought that by sailing west he would find a quicker and easier route to the East. He thought that the earth was smaller than it is, and like all other Europeans at that time, he did not know about the existence of America.
In 1492 Columbus set sail from Palos in Spain with three ships : the Niña, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. He landed on an island in the Bahamas which he named San Salvador, and claimed the island for the king and queen of Spain. Columbus called all the people he met in the islands Indians because he was sure that he had reached the Indies. When Columbus reached Cuba, he thought it was the mainland of Japan. On Christmas Day 1492, the Santa Maria hit a rock and was wrecked. Columbus transferred to the Niña and left behind the crew members of the Santa Maria on the island of Hispaniola (now divided into Haiti and the Dominican Republic). He wanted them to start a new settlement, which he called the Navidad ("Christmas"). Columbus reached Spain in March 1493, claimed his reward in riches, and was made Admiral of the Ocean Sea and Governor of the Indies.
On a second, larger expedition, from 1493 to 1496 he sailed around Hispaniola and along the length of southern Cuba to find gold and capture Indians as slaves, which irritated Queen Isabella. During his return, he faced a frightful storm during which he was again separated from the Pinta, when he had to moor in Lisbon, Portugal. He arrived at Palos, Spain, in March, 1493.
In the third expedition, from 1498 to 1500, in which Columbus sailed farther south, to Trinidad and Venezuela, the monarchs decided upon sending to Haiti an officer to investigate and to punish the people who would treat the Indians with inhuman customs, and in 1500, Columbus is arrested and sent home in chains.
In 1502, after his liberation, Columbus made a fourth and last expedition, sailed to Mexico, Honduras, Panama and Santiago. He landed on the South American mainland, but he never did set foot on the mainland of North America.
Columbus died in 1506, in Valladolid, Spain, still believing that he had found a new route to the East Indies.
* His place in the Barks/Rosa stories universe :
First, in "Mystery of the Swamp", Donald tells he'd want to be an explorer such as Colombus or Drake.
In "Luck of the North", Donald finds an old map in a Viking ship which is said to have been used to discover America, long before Colombus. But we're not told whether the Viking is Leif Eriksson (Erik the Red's son who is said to have discovered America), Olaf the Blue (another Viking from Barks' "The Golden Helmet" who is said to have discovered America in 901, before Leif), or another Viking...
In "Island in the Sky", in which Scrooge is searching for a desert asteroid to hide his money, he discovers little people, who treat Scrooge as did the Indians with Colombus.
In "Isle of Golden Geese", when Scrooge presents an old cannon to defend himself against Magica and the Beagle Boys, Huey tells that it's "the last thing sold at every rummage sale since Colombus".
In "Interplanetary Postman", when Scrooge leaves Duckburg for Venus in a Rocket, he's told by a guy in a plane "May the spirits of the Vikings, of Colombus, and of the men of the Pony Express be with you, Mister McDuck!"
In "Guardians of the Lost Library", it's said that Colombus, also called Christobal Colon in Spain, had been helped by the Lost Library of Alexandria, which Lorenzo de Medicis made him buy when he was a bookseller, to find "the route to the East Indies". He had to hide the books for Medicis not to get them, and in 1498, he took them to his manor in Hispaniola island, but finally, King Ferdinand of Spain learnt about the books and made him come back to Spain (that would be the true reason why Colombus had been imprisoned and put in irons and removed his title in 1450). It is told that he died in poverty and never recovered the books.
In "The Lost Charts of Columbus", a sequel of the story above, Huey, Dewey and Louie find in a manuscript of the first Guidebook of the Canadian Junior Woodchucks some maps of parts of America which helped Colombus to find " the route to the East Indies" he must have got from the books of the Lost Library : One map of Florida from 1492 byJoao Vas Corte-Real, one of Mississippi by Prince Madoc of Wales from 1170, the one of Olaf the Blue from 901, one of the Irish abbot Brendan from the 600s, and one of the Chinese explorer Hui-Jen from 459 (Colombus copied this one from a book of Marco Polo). The Nephews finally find an older map in Cleopatra's tomb, by a Phenician from 425 before Christ.
In "The Crown of the Crusader Kings", Scrooge finds Colombus' lost logbook (when Bartolomeu Dias, Colombus' Portuguese rival, took his boat in Lisbonne, Colombus gave it to a sailor who was supposed to bring it to the King, which he didn't do; so, when Colombus was back to Spain, he told his memories to the Queen's scribe, whose writing was the only source of information about the trip, so far). Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld had bought it in 1878 and lost it in Brutopia in the same year. Reading the book, Scrooge sees it speaks about the day of Christmas, 1492, when the Santa Maria hit a rock, and also of a crown hidden by a Templar. In the same story we learn that the Templars, who had relations with the kings Ferdinand of Spain and John II of Portugal, sponsored Colombus' trip, because he had to give a crown to the Great Khan, in Cathay (China).
Crespo_Portugal said:
Indeed there are. According to my link, he was an alien from outer space, a Catalonian, a bastard of the Castillian nobility, and both a Sephardic and a Messianic Jew. Oh, and the reincarnation of Ulysses.
No one is denying his accomplishments, nor that he lived in Portugal for quite a while. It is you r characterization of him as a "Portugese explorer" that people are finding hard to argee with since he:Crespo_Portugal said:
- Wasn't born there
- Wasn't under contract to the Prtugese crown when he undertook his voyages
- None of the places he found or colonies he helped to establish belonged to Portugal
For all intents and purposes of his exploration in the New World, he was Spanish since that's the country that was footing the bill and would claim the lands.
What possible relevance do Barks/Rosa's historical fiction works have to the subject?Crespo_Portugal said:
I believe that was from the Bank of Genoa taken on his own credit, instead of applying to an Italian state sponsorship like the Republic of Genoa or Pisa or Toscana.MrT said:Thank you for trying to drag this thread back on topic.
Some interesting information there.
But...
He did receive 50% of his funding from Genoese sources...
EDIT: (Began writing Post before Mr. T hit "submit" button)
In your entire post, I find two references to Portugal that don't belong to a series of fictional books:
Read the sentence closely. He was already an experienced sailor and planning his journey before he moved to Portugal. He arrived in 1484 to approach John II about it. Within nine years, he was in Spain, getting Isabella's approval. In 1492, he was 41, and had spent no more than nine years in Portugal, none of that earlier than his thirties.
I'm confused by the chronology here. I take it that he returned from his first expedition in march 1493. I'm not seeing much support for ties to Portugal here.
He returned to Spain from the fourth expedition in 1504, and he lived out the last years of his life there. As a 53 year-old man who was in the service of Spain for twelve years, and spent perhaps nine years in Portugal, why are we to take your quotes and some references from fictional novels as reasoning that Columbus was a Genoan who fell in love with the Portugese nation?
Crespo_Portugal said:
In your entire post, I find two references to Portugal that don't belong to a series of fictional books:
Read the sentence closely. He was already an experienced sailor and planning his journey before he moved to Portugal. He arrived in 1484 to approach John II about it. Within nine years, he was in Spain, getting Isabella's approval. In 1492, he was 41, and had spent no more than nine years in Portugal, none of that earlier than his thirties.
I'm confused by the chronology here. I take it that he returned from his first expedition in march 1493. I'm not seeing much support for ties to Portugal here.
He returned to Spain from the fourth expedition in 1504, and he lived out the last years of his life there. As a 53 year-old man who was in the service of Spain for twelve years, and spent perhaps nine years in Portugal, why are we to take your quotes and some references from fictional novels as reasoning that Columbus was a Genoan who fell in love with the Portugese nation?
Last edited:
Yes, you're correct there. My sources all agree that the funding was "private investments", not state sponsorship.Tunch Khan said:
MrT said:
Perhap's it's because he felt that this Disney-related fansite was a good source of a Columbus biography, and he simply copy pasted this page, either not having read its entirety or not having noticed that half of it was fiction.
I agree with you on most, but I would define him as a Genoese sailor of Greek origin serving as a Spanish explorer.MrT said:
Claiming he's Portugese would be the same as claiming him Ottoman, since Ottomans conquered Chios and all his family became Ottoman nationals. :rofl:
MrT said:
Cristóvão Colón, acording to the theory that says that he was portuguese, was born in Cuba, Alentejo.
kolmy said:
For the purposes of conversing with "Cresp Portugal", the person to which he was responding, Mr. T's assertion is correct.
Crespo_Portugal said:
Brasidas said:
But Crespo Portugal is defending a theory that he even not know.
[EDIT] And is beeing a kind of stupid, saying that Cristovão Colón was a portuguese that was born in Genoa.
It's possible, however the general consensus of historians would not support that assertion. Most primary sources -- including Columbus' own writings -- identify him as being Genoese.kolmy said:
Given enough time, one can find internet sources to support almost any argument. Such sources are often of highly dubious credibility. A review of half a dozen credible sources strongly supports his Genoese birth as being most likely.
Noted historian Norman Davies calls him a "Genoese sailor" in his Europe: A History
The Encyclopaedia Britannica (known for being a reasonably accurate citation) identifies him as being " born between August 26 and October 31, 1451, Genoa [Italy]".
Most other credible secondary and tertiary sources concur. Some also mention the theory that he could be Portugese by birth, but most note that this is highly improbable.
I'm not suggesting that he was Spanish. I believe it highly likely that he was born Genoese (Tunch Khan's post is very interesting as to where in Genoese territory he originated), spent some period of time in his early adulthood in Portugal, and then became an agent of Spain for the remainder of his life (including the period during whch he made his voyages to the west).
Crespo_Portugal said:
If Columbus was ever Portugese in heart, then he is a traitor to his country. He gave top secret Portugese exploration secrets to the Spanish. Anyway, Portugal never discovered the world, it just had convinent maps depicting the Americas and Indies... from the Chinese.
...?
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