Populist uprising every 6 months for 5 years?

[alvanio]

Granted, my half-brother got most of Iberia and Marocco in a GHW so its alot of angry muslims. But he's lucky he's allied to me because these 50k populist uprisings wouldnt be manageable by him alone. Thankfully he just doesnt capitulate. I dont know exactly the timer on this (6 months is an exaggeration) but as soon as one rebellion is defeated there cant be more than a year before I have to re-raise my army and go squash the peasants.

Shouldnt there be a timer on this? I mean, how can the populist manage to gather 50k viable soldiers over and over? Doesnt make much sense.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

they're scaled, obviously to be more challenging than in CKII. i don't mind it. in the dev diaries they called them 'county revolts' so i'm imagining everyone in the county has torches and pitchforks

 

[alvanio]

Aw shit, here we go again.

 

[durbal]

I like rebels being stronger, but the real problem here is likely that you can't convert counties because the Fervor system is bad.

 

[Avernite]

I like rebels being stronger, but the real problem here is likely that you can't convert counties because the Fervor system is bad.

I think the bigger issue is the timescale.

Peasant revolts, in general, seem about right; you have them on occasion, you decide to beat them or get them out of your hair, and then you're ok for a good while. But if they've also got religious anger on their side, it just never stops or even slows down.

And of course, the peasants have the better effect. Chaos and low taxes in your provinces because your peasants hate you? Logical. Rabble destroying the Crusader Kings, rather than actual foreign armies conquering Jerusalem? Not as great.

 

[alvanio]

And another one.

About a 3 year relief. Pretty amazing how they manage to muster 50k rebels in such short span.

 

[alvanio]

This is typically what happens too. Its not hard, its just tedious.

I've probably slain 500,000 muslims in like 10 years, fucking genocide going on in here.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

try to keep count and report back

 

[OptiqueMarquis]

i understand this feature is akin to the "coalitions" from eu4.


your brother probably overextended his domain too quickly and now he has to deal with this. it happened to me too on an early save. its a nuisance because you have to keep looking over your sholder every time you are called into another war.


played again as sancho and made sure to let the newly conquered domains "settle" for a while before extending further and kept all revolt in check.


the pope at one point declared a crusade over the remaining south iberia muslims and created "andalusia kingdom" - catholic. they didnt last long as they got overwhelmed with peasent revolts.


bottom line is its easy to conquer all iberia fast with religion CB but then you have to deal with the consequences of having half a muslim and half a catholic kingdom.

 

[Abaia]

Until/unless PDX decides to change this, you may want to consider the Greater Peasant Pacification mod, which decreases the recurrence of peasant revolts after you crush one.

 

[Mhoirbheinn]

Granted, my half-brother got most of Iberia and Marocco in a GHW so its alot of angry muslims. But he's lucky he's allied to me because these 50k populist uprisings wouldnt be manageable by him alone. Thankfully he just doesnt capitulate. I dont know exactly the timer on this (6 months is an exaggeration) but as soon as one rebellion is defeated there cant be more than a year before I have to re-raise my army and go squash the peasants.

There's no cooldown timer on populist wars. The problem is the foreign culture and evil religion at max fervour opinion penalties for each county are -55, but the "Locals Pacified" bonus you get for defeating a populist/peasant revolt is only +20, so the counties remain -35 opinion underwater. The populist faction reforms and relaunches straight away after defeating the first revolt, then again after the second, and third, and forth, etc. with all new fully replenished peasant troops each time.

I have two mods you can try to fix it. The first, as Abaia suggested above, is Greater Peasant Pacification, that increases the "Locals Pacified" county opinon bonus awarded on defeating the first populist revolt to +60, overcoming the base -55, and extends it to 20 years, up from vanilla 10, so populist wars are a once in a generation event rather than a biannual festival.

The second mod is Fervour Inversion, which amongst other things applies a similar crusade "Local's Pacified" county opinion modifier of +60 for 40 years, to represent the deep pacification of a crusade, and provide an early stability fix for crusade realms so they don't have to face a populist war straight away after just defeating the entire world armies of the would-be rebels faith.

 

[alvanio]

There's no cooldown timer on populist wars. The problem is the foreign culture and evil religion at max fervour opinion penalties for each county are -55, but the "Locals Pacified" bonus you get for defeating a populist/peasant revolt is only +20, so the counties remain -35 opinion underwater. The populist faction reforms and relaunches straight away after defeating the first revolt, then again after the second, and third, and forth, etc. with all new fully replenished peasant troops each time.

I have two mods you can try to fix it. The first, as Abaia suggested above, is Greater Peasant Pacification, that increases the "Locals Pacified" county opinon bonus awarded on defeating the first populist revolt to +60, overcoming the base -55, and extends it to 20 years, up from vanilla 10, so populist wars are a once in a generation event rather than a biannual festival.

The second mod is Fervour Inversion, which amongst other things applies a similar crusade "Local's Pacified" county opinion modifier of +60 for 40 years, to represent the deep pacification of a crusade, and provide an early stability fix for crusade realms so they don't have to face a populist war straight away after just defeating the entire world armies of the would-be rebels faith.

Its a shame you cant run these mods if you play ironman with achivements, thanks though.

An idea I had that would make the revolts more dynamic is that when you crush revolts they get weaker over time. And have certain areas where the "rebel stronghold" is. One reason why these 50k rebels are so easy to squash is 1) theyre peasants but also 2) they spawn all over the country so you can easily pick off 4k stacks here and there.

Crushing 1 revolt and then not having to give it a second thought seems a bit broken though, if I'm not mistaken, the modifier dictates how fast the revolt ticks? So if you get -55 and you "pacify" with 20, that delays the revolt and then you can have a system that when you defeat the second revolt you pacity with +40 or something like that.

 

[Zhetone]

it doesn't help that muslims are overrepresented in iberia in-game and due to the bad fervor system they convert the entire peninsula without issue, which then magnifies the rebel problem.

 

[Mhoirbheinn]

Crushing 1 revolt and then not having to give it a second thought seems a bit broken though, if I'm not mistaken, the modifier dictates how fast the revolt ticks? So if you get -55 and you "pacify" with 20, that delays the revolt and then you can have a system that when you defeat the second revolt you pacity with +40 or something like that.

Not at -35, the faction will auto-form and auto-launch at those numbers, and the +20 doesn't stack so even if you got slight delay from first to second revolt, there will be no difference from second to third, and third to forth, and forth to fifth, and so on.

My thought is every other war has a truce mechanism that the AI obeys, so should revolts. It's especially implausible when, as has happened to you, the peasant army gets new soldiers from nowhere six months to two years later after you stackwiped them. Where are all these men coming from, how many hundreds of thousands can you kill in a decade before there's no one living left in the counties?

 

[cursorhiker]

it doesn't help that muslims are overrepresented in iberia in-game and due to the bad fervor system they convert the entire peninsula without issue, which then magnifies the rebel problem.

This is a pretty big problem, at game start in both 867 and 1066 a significant chunk of central Spain is Catholic and held by Muslim rulers; twenty years in all that land is converted to Muslim. (I question whether an adaptive religion with Jizya should be able to convert provinces at all - but that's another issue entirely.)

 

[Question]

Strange, im not having issues with mass rebels at all. Are you guys not converting counties or what? In the early game i had a few rebel uprisings but that stopped mattering quickly and they were never a real threat. Sometimes i would get a random 1k rebel stack but it was just an annoyance.

 

[Mhoirbheinn]

Strange, im not having issues with mass rebels at all. Are you guys not converting counties or what? In the early game i had a few rebel uprisings but that stopped mattering quickly and they were never a real threat. Sometimes i would get a random 1k rebel stack but it was just an annoyance.

View attachment 643472

The only check to cycle revolts is the comparative millitary power, so once you gain enough size the factions become too weak to send an ultimatium. The cycle revolt problem mainly affects kingdom sized realms taking multi-duchies or other kingdoms with all foreign culture/different religion counties, or crusade realms which are all different religion and usually different culture counties. Even a smaller region that cycle revolts takes away the opportunity cost of doing anything else with your army and enjoying peacetime perks.

 

[Jamey]

Strange, im not having issues with mass rebels at all. Are you guys not converting counties or what? In the early game i had a few rebel uprisings but that stopped mattering quickly and they were never a real threat. Sometimes i would get a random 1k rebel stack but it was just an annoyance.

View attachment 643472

I’m guessing you started the conversion to your cult in Catholic areas, taking advantage of chronic low fervor.

Try playing a loyal Catholic in Iberia and taking over Muwalladi provinces (which penalize conversions). Between the high Islamic fervor, low Catholic fervor, and the conversion penalty, you will find that more often than not you have zero progress (literally) converting unless you take the learning perks. Your vassals will never convert a single province because they won’t take that perk.

The rebellions will come about as quickly as a new faction can form against you.

My experience playing in Iberia has made me hate the fervor mechanics. They are simply not fun.

 

[Zhetone]

This is a pretty big problem, at game start in both 867 and 1066 a significant chunk of central Spain is Catholic and held by Muslim rulers; twenty years in all that land is converted to Muslim. (I question whether an adaptive religion with Jizya should be able to convert provinces at all - but that's another issue entirely.)

yeah it's really weird - if I were playing as the Umayyads for example I would not want to convert the Catholics because you get more taxes, but I guess the revolts make it compelling to convert anyway. They won't have fervor issues as well because of how compact their religion is

 

[Troyen]

Not at -35, the faction will auto-form and auto-launch at those numbers, and the +20 doesn't stack so even if you got slight delay from first to second revolt, there will be no difference from second to third, and third to forth, and forth to fifth, and so on.

The Architect Stewardship tree has Popular Figurehead for +50 opinion. The Scholar Learning tree has Open-Minded and Apostate which appear designed to mitigate different culture and different faith penalties (respectively). Do these talents help at all with reducing the frequency of revolts?

If it's the OP's vassal having trouble, not much he can do to make the vassal pick those, but if it's the OP's counties revolting might be worth a try.

Edit: In answer to my own question, it doesn't help if your vassal has the revolt. The populace seem to be basing it on the opinion of their county owner rather than the top liege. But it did make it slightly easier for me to demand conversion from any vassals that tried to ally with the faction, and if even one of them says yes it disbands the faction.