populations Might be a good idea to add

[lordjimmy]

If we add population numbers to cities ect... would be more realistic

1. Bigger or smaller Tax revenue based on populations
2. population event chains
3. As it stands now The plauge is pointless without populations

Having populations added could add a new aspect to the game that could make or break a rulers rule. Just my few cents feel free to add or make changes to what Iv suggested

 

[yezhanquan]

Plagues are there to reduce your supply limit. So, they are useless unless you happen to be fighting a war, and that reduction of supply causes high attrition. Oh, and to possibly infect characters in the area.

 

[justin6477]

I think the issue is finding reliable population numbers for the period. People have asked for population in EUIV, and it's been an emphatic no.

 

[ziamatt]

I think the issue is finding reliable population numbers for the period. People have asked for population in EUIV, and it's been an emphatic no.

After EUIII's representation of population I'm not surprised.

 

[lordjimmy]

Meny games figure it out Im sure They can figure it out , maybe based off what buildings you have, location

 

[OutsiderSubtype]

No, this is a bad idea. Needless detail with no game benefit. What does population bring to the game that isn't already represented by buildings, supply limit, and max number of holdings in a county?

 

[Evander]

Since population was more than decimated in most parts of Europa during the black plague there is definitely no reliable source of population census. For instance the first initiative of population census in France go back to the reign of Francis the First.

Plus, population was not that important at that time (it does after the black plague however). It was mostly like depicted in Game of Thrones, noble families opposed each others, knights fight, soldiers die and peasants provide food for everyone (when they don't die of deceases and/or famine).

 

[A_Dane]

If we add population numbers to cities ect... would be more realistic

1. Bigger or smaller Tax revenue based on populations
2. population event chains
3. As it stands now The plauge is pointless without populations

Having populations added could add a new aspect to the game that could make or break a rulers rule. Just my few cents feel free to add or make changes to what Iv suggested

The black plague could probably be represented to some degree by using county modifiers, that severely reduce the income of the province & manpower of affected counties.

It's not ideal, and you'd probably have to have it removed after a while, returning it to the pre-plague strike status, but I think there'd be a lot of outrage, if you suddenly lost 1/3 of your soldiers without any way of making them come back.

 

[unmerged(527492)]

No, this is a bad idea. Needless detail with no game benefit. What does population bring to the game that isn't already represented by buildings, supply limit, and max number of holdings in a county?

Things population could impact:
1. Rate of retraining soldiers for garrisons
2. Tax income
3. Cost of building new holdings and upgrading existing ones
4. Rate of culture spread (they could even make culture dynamic, perhaps a a large population of one culture next to a small population of another culture has a chance of changing the neighbor)
5. Rate of religious conversion

 

[grisamentum]

Things population could impact:
1. Rate of retraining soldiers for garrisons
2. Tax income
3. Cost of building new holdings and upgrading existing ones
4. Rate of culture spread (they could even make culture dynamic, perhaps a a large population of one culture next to a small population of another culture has a chance of changing the neighbor)
5. Rate of religious conversion

Basically all of this.

Right now levies are a huge problem because they replenish so fast. You can pretty much conduct continuous massive war after continuous massive war at the moment - especially if you build training grounds.

Culture and religious conversions are totally bogus right now because they seem to just be random chance modified by neighboring provinces.

 

[unmerged(527492)]

It doesn't even need to be a definite number given. Something as simple as:
"very low
low
medium
high
very high"

would work as categorical descriptions of population.

 

[Cymsdale]

It doesn't even need to be a definite number given. Something as simple as:
"very low
low
medium
high
very high"

would work as categorical descriptions of population.

very low = 1 holding
low = 2 holdings
medium = 3 holdings
high = 4 holdings
very high = 5 holdings
...

 

[JonStryker]

very low = 1 holding
low = 2 holdings
medium = 3 holdings
high = 4 holdings
very high = 5 holdings
...

It only costs you around 4500 gold to build 6 additional holdings. Some more if you want to build some upgrades. It's too damn easy to turn any backwater province into a powerhouse-province. Or with your logic: To turn a province with very low population in one with very high province.
Not enough men? Let's build a bigger donjon that'll fix that.

 

[grisamentum]

very low = 1 holding
low = 2 holdings
medium = 3 holdings
high = 4 holdings
very high = 5 holdings
...

Except that i needs to go down too.

Or maybe holdings should be destroyed sometimes?

 

[The_Blind_One]

I wish the destroy title function would work for holdings as well. (perhaps it does? someone?)

That way we could have holdings destroyed and reduce the imaginative population.

Considering that the plagues wiped out entire towns it wouldn't be so strange to have the least developed holding collapse and be destroyed due to the plagues rampaging effect.

 

[Cymsdale]

It only costs you around 4500 gold to build 6 additional holdings. Some more if you want to build some upgrades. It's too damn easy to turn any backwater province into a powerhouse-province.

Except backwater provinces have low holding limits.

 

[OutsiderSubtype]

Things population could impact:
1. Rate of retraining soldiers for garrisons
2. Tax income
3. Cost of building new holdings and upgrading existing ones
4. Rate of culture spread (they could even make culture dynamic, perhaps a a large population of one culture next to a small population of another culture has a chance of changing the neighbor)
5. Rate of religious conversion

1. Affected by Training Ground and similar buildings already. If you think it's too high across the board that's an argument for lowering it across the board, not for adding some convoluted new mechanic.
2. Affected by buildings already. Buildings are a proxy for population and most other variables affecting economic power.
3. Why are flat costs a problem? Provinces are limited by the max number of holdings.
4. This is already affected by the province owner's skills. Mods such as CK2+ add additional complexity.
5. This is affected by the court chaplain's skills. Mods add additional complexity.

It is literally not possible to turn some icebound part of Norway into a powerhouse since the max holdings will be 2. If you think that levies replenish too fast or province conversions are too fast, solve the problem by using mods that slow things down.

If you played EU3 you would understand that population figures quickly become so laughable as to hurt immersion.

 

[Talq]

Population estimates at country level in this period are basicly 'well we have hearth tax records for this time, and if we assume family size of x and exemptions were 10% we get...' Thats for Western Europe, it gets more arbitrary as you move east. Major city, and below that provinces without major cities, worse still.

THEN (caps intended), to actually do anything with your population estimate, you need to model migration (as well as births/deaths). In practice, expect to get a system very likely to throw up absurdities, while adding very little to gameplay (especially as the holding system absorbs most of its functions).

 

[ziamatt]

Things population could impact:
1. Rate of retraining soldiers for garrisons
2. Tax income
3. Cost of building new holdings and upgrading existing ones
4. Rate of culture spread (they could even make culture dynamic, perhaps a a large population of one culture next to a small population of another culture has a chance of changing the neighbor)
5. Rate of religious conversion

1. Buildings, Marshal
2. Buildings, Steward
3. Number of existing holdings (for building new ones), Steward (for upgrading existing holdings)
4. Steward
5. Chaplain

All of these things are already implemented, adding population would just throw another layer of numbers over everything. Considering the problems that have already been mentioned (accurate numbers, modeling migration and growth, etc) it would be more trouble than it's worth.

It only costs you around 4500 gold to build 6 additional holdings. Some more if you want to build some upgrades. It's too damn easy to turn any backwater province into a powerhouse-province. Or with your logic: To turn a province with very low population in one with very high province.
Not enough men? Let's build a bigger donjon that'll fix that.

Except you can't build 6 additional holdings in backwater provinces.

 

[JonStryker]

Yeah but Suzdal has the same number of holding slots as Venice. And as others said: "population" never goes down this way. Every county gets stronger and wealthier over the time.