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unmerged(29041)

Amnistiado por viejuno
May 12, 2004
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I wrote this for my guide, but I am not sure it is true. Any mistakes that you can spot?

5.10 Population

Population is largely out of your hands, but it does have an effect on the economy. One of the first things that surprises people is how low the population is in most provinces. This is because the population you see refers to the people living in the capital city, and most people live in the countryside, where census are difficult to carry out. The population growth shown in the province info window (11% for example) is per decade. It is too high for the time period, but probably incorporates migration between provinces and from the countryside to the city.

The population in your provinces grows faster if you have high stability (+1% for stability -3, and +1% for each additional level of stability, up to 7%), and is possitively affected by a governor (+1%), by a manufactory (+2%), by a CoT (+5%) or by having a CoT in a neighbour province (+2%).

It is negatively affected by a harsh climate (hardcoded in some provinces outside Europe), the presence of enemy troops (-5%), the province being under siege (-5%), being occupied (-3%), and being looted (-5%). Rebels produce the same effect as the enemy.

The main benefits of a large population are increased income from production, gold, tolls, generated trade (census taxes depend on base tax value and are unaffected) and increased manpower. The main disadvantage for large population is reduced chance for conversion and increased cost for conversion.

When you are colonizing, you will gradually increase your production, gold income and generated trade that goes to the CoT from 1/10 to 10/10 (1x) when your colony changes from a level 1 to a city province. Then you will increase these incomes by 1/6 when your population goes over 5k, 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k and 200k, up to 12/6 or 2x. For gold provinces your income will also depend on the mine value, while for production it depends on the resource and your production efficiency, and for generated trade it depends on the market value of the product. A TC and a governor will increase your production and gold income.

For tolls (trade taxes) the effect of population is even bigger, because the factor increases by integers, going from 1x for a level 1 colony to 16x for a city province of population over 200k, in the same steps as above. For trade tolls your final income still depends on your trade efficiency.

The manpower of a province depends crucially on its population. Province base manpower is multiplied by zero if below 1000 pop., by 0.25 when it becomes a city, by 0.5 when over 20k and by 0.75 over 200k. You will see below that the final manpower depends also on other factors (section 6.2.1).

So what should you do regarding population? Nothing that you are not probably doing already: Keep at high stabilities as much as possible, promote officials in your provinces (except TCs in wrong culture/wrong religion provinces), build manufactories, fight wars in foreign soil, reduce your revolt risk and squash those pesky rebels. When colonizing, keep friendly natives alive. Most players would advise against sending additional colonists to a city, in most cases it is not worth it considering how expensive it is to colonize and how many virgin lands are out there. Finally, if you are going to convert, the sooner the easier and cheaper, but your monarch administrative skills are foremost here (see section 9.4).
 
Last edited:
Feb 12, 2004
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The growth is not yearly, but decade-based : so, with 11%, you'll get 11% more inhabitants ten years later. However, population rises each month, and I don't know if it's by the growth value divided by 120 (10*12 months)(which would amount to a higher growth rate than shown) or if the math is more complex (and gives exactly the growth rate).

Precisions on growth bonuses :
- stability : +1% for stability -3, +1% additional for every point above (for a maximum of +7% at stab +3)
- manufactories : +2%
- CoT : +5% ; adjacent to a CoT : +2%
- enemy troops : -5% ; sieged : -5% ; occupied : -3% ; looted : -5%
 

DSYoungEsq

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The tax multipliers have changed with the change to require 1000 inhabitants for a city. As I told Ironfoundersson in a PM recently,
Slight modification needed in the discussion of Trade Taxes. I have discovered that, with the bump of threshhold for cityship to 1000 (from 700), the multipliers for each colony/city level have been modified. Specifically, they increase by 1 for each 100 population in a colony, reaching a multiplier of 10, not 6, for a 1000 population city. Thus, if the base is 1 ducat, and trade efficiency is 30%, a colony of 800 will have a Trade Tax of 2.4 ducats; a colony of 200,001 will have a Trade Tax of 4.8 ducats (1 * .3 * 16).
 
Feb 12, 2004
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DSYoungEsq said:
The tax multipliers have changed with the change to require 1000 inhabitants for a city. As I told Ironfoundersson in a PM recently,
Have you tested this ? Aren't the modifiers 'stuck' at x6/6 and x6 when colonies get to lvl 6 ?
 

DSYoungEsq

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Nope, I tested it before writing to Ironfoundersson. :)
 

unmerged(29041)

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Thanks lawkeeper, I knew I could trust the haughty know-it-all for spotting all the mistakes.

DSYoungEsq, what about the 1/6 multiplier to production, has that also been changed?
 

DSYoungEsq

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I didn't test that, Fodoron. Give me a chance and I'll see if I can test it today. :)
 

unmerged(29041)

Amnistiado por viejuno
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DSYoungEsq said:
I didn't test that, Fodoron. Give me a chance and I'll see if I can test it today. :)

Hey, I am not putting any pressure here :D
 

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lawkeeper said:
The growth is not yearly, but decade-based : so, with 11%, you'll get 11% more inhabitants ten years later. However, population rises each month, and I don't know if it's by the growth value divided by 120 (10*12 months)(which would amount to a higher growth rate than shown) or if the math is more complex (and gives exactly the growth rate).

Precisions on growth bonuses :
- stability : +1% for stability -3, +1% additional for every point above (for a maximum of +7% at stab +3)
- manufactories : +2%
- CoT : +5% ; adjacent to a CoT : +2%
- enemy troops : -5% ; sieged : -5% ; occupied : -3% ; looted : -5%
You could add to that:

- +5% for a colonial city ( -5000 inhabitants..)
 

unmerged(9146)

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lawkeeper said:
so, with 11%, you'll get 11% more inhabitants ten years later.
You won't. With 11% growth you will get 11.6% more inhabitants in ten years, and that's because:

population rises each month, and I don't know if it's by the growth value divided by 120 (10*12 months)(which would amount to a higher growth rate than shown) or if the math is more complex (and gives exactly the growth rate).
The math isn't any more complex (except that there are rounding issues). The displayed rate is divided by 120 and that's your actual monthly population growth rate.
 
Feb 12, 2004
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robin74 said:
You won't. With 11% growth you will get 11.6% more inhabitants in ten years, and that's because:


The math isn't any more complex (except that there are rounding issues). The displayed rate is divided by 120 and that's your actual monthly population growth rate.
Geez, thanks for having checked that (probably some time ago, am I wrong ? ;) ).
 

unmerged(9146)

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lawkeeper said:
thanks for having checked that (probably some time ago, am I wrong ? ;) ).
Nope, you're right :rolleyes:
Do you think I should put the disclaimer that it was not tested under the current beta :) ?
 

DSYoungEsq

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DSYoungEsq said:
I didn't test that, Fodoron. Give me a chance and I'll see if I can test it today. :)
Ok, here are the test results:

Yes, as populations rise in colonies, for every 100 inhabitants, up to 1000, the production income rises by the base amount times the level of the colony, times the production efficiency.

Thus, for Portugal's colony in the Azores, the production level with Infrastructure at 0 and with Portugal's starting domestic policy sliders goes from 0.1d to 0.8 ducats. This is N*1d*8%, rounded.

When I raised production efficiency to 88% (infra 10, same DP settings), the production income was 8.8d for 1000 inhabitants (10*1d*88%). Lower populations went down accordingly (i.e., by .88 ducats a level).

So the short answer is that, yes, they fiddled with production income the same way they fiddled with Trade Tax. :)
 

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The population only represents the Capital city of the province not all cities of a province.
 

~~|maiq|~~

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Fodoron said:
The main benefits of a large population are increased income from production, gold, tolls, generated trade (census taxes depend on base tax value and are unaffected) and increased manpower. The main disadvantage for large population is reduced chance for conversion and increased cost for conversion.

Are you sure gold income depends on the province population? I think that it does not.
 

unmerged(29041)

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~~|maiq|~~ said:
Are you sure gold income depends on the province population? I think that it does not.

I trust the economy FAQ on that, but you are wellcome to check it and post your results. Remember that the effect jumps at 5k, 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k, and 200k.
 

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Fodoron said:
I trust the economy FAQ on that, but you are wellcome to check it and post your results. Remember that the effect jumps at 5k, 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k, and 200k.
Just to be technical, for testing purposes, the effect changes at 5001, 10,001, 20,001, etc. However, 1000 is the break point from 900-999.

It gets kinda fun, the routine of loading, looking, alt-tabbing to the text editor, changing the pop, going back in, loading, ... :wacko:
 

unmerged(29041)

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DSYoungEsq said:
It gets kinda fun, the routine of loading, looking, alt-tabbing to the text editor, changing the pop, going back in, loading, ...

I bet, I am sorry I miss all that fun by just collecting answers :D
 

unmerged(2934)

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Fodoron said:
It is negatively affected by a harsh climate (hardcoded in some provinces outside Europe),

I recall that the harsh climate modifier is only applicable outside of your continent, i.e. an country with it's capital in Africa will not get the negative multiplier colonising in Africa, but will suffer it in Asia, etc.
Also isn't there something about once this disappearing once the city gets to a certain level? Not sure on this.