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unmerged(78196)

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Jun 12, 2007
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Yesterday, when I was playing a rather long version of the great war which lasted to the end of 1918 after a long period hands-off, a fundamental problem came to my mind again, that makes it hard to end such wars because of hundreds of stockpiled divisions on border provinces and a massive slowdown of the game.

Constant manpower growth throughout the years leads to the construction of enourmous armies as long as war is going on, even little countries like denmark stockpile more than a dozen divisions as they do not know what to do with their manpower.

Someone once mentioned that manpower growth in hoi considers only the number of young men who become available for service, but not those who become too old. This is why I propose a massive change in our manpower policy:

Countries should be given a rather small manpower pool at the beginning of a scenario. When they mobilise for war, large amounts of manpower become available in waves through large-scale conscription.

As a desperate measure, when war is going bad, they might activate some more men who were previously considered too old, too young or unsuited for service. They should be given the option to do this or not, yet doing so would be punished with dissent and a negative IC mod to represent the missing workers, which could be countered by sending women or POWs to the factories.

The gist is, that beside manpower granted at the beginning or by events, there should be no more considerable manpower growth from provinces. It should not exceed the general growth of population of that country, 5% annually at most, and should not even be sufficient to reinforce losses of hard battles and certainly not enough to build more and more divisions each year. The number of men either available for service or in active service should be much lower at the end of the great war than before. Serbia, for example, lost every second soldier during the war.

By implementing this model, countries with very high manpower (Russia, USA) will see a benefit in later war years as they will not be faced by severe manpower problems in comparison to low manpower countries (France). This way, manpower will become an even more precious resource and the limiting factor to highly developed countries who are than even more encouraged to upgrade divisions and building defensive brigades like tanks to reduce their losses instead of building more cheap infantry divisions as years go by.

Discuss!
 

Tegetthoff

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This is pretty much the way it should work. If you study the 1897 files, you will see manpower cut down to 0.1 to 0.25 of the vanilla values. Larger armies should become possible between 1897 and 1914, but in actual fact the countries mobilised a significant part of the male population for the war.

So instead of increasing industrial production industrial production should fall after mobilisation.....
 

unmerged(91939)

First Lieutenant
Jan 29, 2008
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I think that idea is great. The game about 1918 slows to a crawl, which is why I was trying (and failing), to somehow reduce armies after the war ends. the armies are so massive that they are hard to manage by a human player at that time, really.
 

unmerged(78196)

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Jun 12, 2007
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Now that you say it, I remember that the other day, a mate and me were playing the 1897 scenario all the way up 'til war and its end in 1917 and it was a significant improvement over what I experience in the 1914 scenario. The game did not slow down alot before 1915, and manpower was limited somewhat, yet still many countries had much more infantry divisions in 1914 than they should have.

Are there plans already to set manpower growth in the 1914 scenario similarly low? That would certainly ease the situation and put an end to the overcrowding that thwarts any offensive action and slows the game itself.
 

v.Manstein

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I just want to mention an idea, which is no criticism on the ideas given in this thread.

I never considered 1914 to be like TRP. For me, it was (and is) only a modification for HoI2. This means that we should more or less stay with the game mechanics to regulate things. Event punishments should always be the last resort. I already said this on some other topics.

So what I think is, that we may should increase casulties and let reinforcement become more important. Each country should have problems replace lost after 3 years of war.
 

unmerged(91939)

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Jan 29, 2008
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Agreed, v.manstein. If we can somehow modify battles to cause more casualties, the manpower problem will somewhat fix itself as reinforcements will use up the manpower alot, which is pretty realistic.
 

Tegetthoff

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When I made the changes to the 1897 scenario I considered the 1914 scenario "historical truth". Meaning that on Dec. 30, 1913 I reset the reduced manpower values to the 1914 scenario values.

This might be reconsidered ....
 

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I have sent my work to Manstein. Real life has stopped me from making any progress. (wife going in for surgery and other issues) I've sent Manstein the file I had made for work in progress for 1900 population distribution. No point in holding you guys up. Let me know if you have any questions
 

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Grattons said:
I have sent my work to Manstein. Real life has stopped me from making any progress. (wife going in for surgery and other issues) I've sent Manstein the file I had made for work in progress for 1900 population distribution. No point in holding you guys up. Let me know if you have any questions

Manstein, If no one continues the work I will pick it up at a later date. My wife was scheduled for bariatric surgery Monday, but there have been complications and we dont know whats next. ther have been other things going on in addition to this that have consumed many of my evenings. I regret stopping the work I was doing, but do not want to stop anyone from picking up where I left off. Thats why I sent you the excel file I was working with. However if no one continues the work I will resume it once the wife's surgery is done and recovery has begun.
 

v.Manstein

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As you might realize when reading through the forum, we have much construction sites in 1914. So, from my part, nothing speaks against you continuing the work whenever you can.
Thanks for your Excel file anyway, I had a first look into it and I'm impressed of the ammount of numbers :D Thanks for your extensive work.
 

Tegetthoff

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Grattons said:
Manstein, If no one continues the work I will pick it up at a later date. My wife was scheduled for bariatric surgery Monday, but there have been complications and we dont know whats next. ther have been other things going on in addition to this that have consumed many of my evenings. I regret stopping the work I was doing, but do not want to stop anyone from picking up where I left off. Thats why I sent you the excel file I was working with. However if no one continues the work I will resume it once the wife's surgery is done and recovery has begun.

All our best wishes to you and your wife, hope it all turns out well soon!
 

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Oh sorry, I forgot to mention this: My best wishes for your wife too. Hope she's doing fine soon.
 

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thank you all for your concerns. Marilyn (my wife) was slated for bariatric surgery this monday morning. Thats where the take a golf ball sized part of your upper stomach and make a new one for you with it. They sew the old one closed. They then attach this new somach about 40 percent of the way down your small intestine. This has 2 imediate effects. One is that you can only eat a golf ball of food. and the second is that you are bypassing 40 percent of you small intestine, which means you only absorb 60 percent of anything you eat.

Of course there is a lot more to it than that. It takes months of liquids and pureed foods before you even want to try solid foods again. And you cant drink a glass of water since you will just chuck it back up (golf ball stomach - I know I had it done one and a half years ago and 70 lbs ago). So you end up sipping liquids constantly just to keep from dehydrating. In the long run salads become your best friend since they are mostly liquid anyway.

Well her surgery got postponed because it was discovered she had pancytopenia, which is a symptom where your red blood cells, white blood cells & platelets are all low in your bloodstream. This has over 40 known possible causes, from vitamin b12 deficiency to heridetary (genetics) to drug interaction, all the way to full blown cancer. So of course they want to make sure she is OK before they make the first incision/cut. and then on Wednesday the doctor heard a faint heart murmer. Jesus - when it rains it pours. So we have a monday appt for the heart, and a may 8th appt for her blood doctor. Should she get cleared for surgery the surgeon said for her to immediately get scheduled since he is otherwise happy and ready. But this has caused much disruption at home and work, and a lot of stress for both of us. And we still dont know whats going to happen yet. So between lack of time, and lack of drive (mental fatigue) I thought best not to hold you guys up. If no one ends up doing anything about the provincial manpower numbers to bring it more into line with actual population numbers, I will resume the work in may. so feel free to go forward - and if not I will resume where I left off in about a month - provided we dont get any more surprises.
 

v.Manstein

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We will see what we can do. Even if we love what we do here, taking care of your wife is much more important now. Make sure everythings fine first. You can join again at every time. Take my best wishes for you and your wife. Hope to see you again soon with good news from your family.