Poorly treated Psionics should mirror the robot uprising and become a rising hivemind

[Aed]

Given the Shroud is basically a ripoff of the Warp, it might be fun to allow an event where a Shroud entity possesses/corrupts the psionics in part of your empire causing them to rebel.

You could also give the breakaway corrupted empire the possibility of takeinh the End of the Cycle, which would add a nice bit of tension as you rush to try and snuff them out before the avatar forms.

 

[InvisibleBison]

Given the Shroud is basically a ripoff of the Warp, it might be fun to allow an event where a Shroud entity possesses/corrupts the psionics in part of your empire causing them to rebel.

You could also give the breakaway corrupted empire the possibility of takeinh the End of the Cycle, which would add a nice bit of tension as you rush to try and snuff them out before the avatar forms.

The Shroud should be made less of a ripoff of the Warp, not more of one.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

The Shroud should be made less of a ripoff of the Warp, not more of one.

Stellaris is a giant homage to the genre of Science Fiction and the Space Opera sub-genre in particular, if you want to make something more interesting then suggest away but change for the sake of making it less of a homage seems awfully counterproductive.

 

[Tacticus101]

Hive Minds in Stellaris are a bit more specific than some settings, they are more a single mind where every drone is an extenstion of its will. Specifically:

"Hive Minds operate as a single organism more than as a state. The population has no free will, and act as an extension of the Hive Mind itself - much like the limbs of a body.

When cut off from the Mind, these drones become comatose and eventually wither and die. Any free individuals on planets owned by the Mind are driven away, killed, or simply treated as prey to feed the collective."


Psionics could logically form a Gestalt Consciousness, but it would not be the same as a Hive mind, it would be communal psionic link; where individuals are seperate entities that share information and thoughts over a link but remain independently operating individuals. The Protoss from Starcraft and Advent from Sins of a Solar Empire both have that concept. A group mind could be the extreme result, but it would be an ultimate democracy rather than a hive mind.

To an extent you can represent a system like that in game, its why psionics get ethics attraction and there are lots of references to shared thoughts. Maybe at some point it will become an empire type, but Hive Mind does not fit.


With regards to the OP's suggestion: rather than having a new hive mind arise, i think it would be interesting if rebellious Psionics made a pact with a Shroud entity, possibly sacrificing themselves to unleash a massive shroud encursion upon their oppressors. It would fit much better and be very different from the existing robot rebellions.

Given the Shroud is basically a ripoff of the Warp.

The Warp is not an original concept.

 

[kgptzac]

It always feels more appropriate the EDI crisis should be caused by Psi Jump Drive, hence giving it analogy to the Contingency caused by having synths. Also there is not much chance to badly treat psionics in empires that spawn them... unlike synths.

 

[klopkr]

This is what got me thinking about this. If hiveminds are more genetic based now then just make it a consequence from having psychic half species possibly kicking off a new hive species.

We don't really bring it up ever but this game doesn't let you have a single clone species unless you're a hivemind.

 

[exogeologist]

A Psionic Hivemind is basically Asimov's concept of Gaia from the Foundation novels. A sort of emergent mega-mind from the biosphere of an especially verdant world. Individuals still had free will, more or less, but could also communicate with and through Gaia. There's no telling if Gaia was ultimately in control of the individuals, though Bliss certainly thought she was independent (ish).

The old canon Star Wars novels also had sentient planets (Zonama Sekot, as well as the original Yuuzhan Vong homeworld), though those weren't hiveminds exactly, at least not of sentient individuals.

Regardless, there a lot of cool ways it could be done. I like the idea of it being a Shroud event and based on the entity that tricks you into it you could end up a Devouring Swarm, or maybe something more peaceful like Asimov's Gaia.

 

[Highlordelliot]

I dont see why it would make a hive mind.
Really what i'd like is if all ethic groups would have some events related to being suppressed.
The Spiritualists would be set to revolt over being denied the ability to practice their beliefs, priests/shamans/clerics/seers/oracles/augurs/ being arrest and or killed, texts burned, temples looted and torn down.

The Shroud should be made less of a ripoff of the Warp, not more of one.

We need more avenues for spiritualists to express their beliefs through. Like worshiping the drakes, tyanki, void clouds. Maybe create some other planes of existence for us to commune with if we want to worship things that arent trying to kill us every time we commune with them.

 

[sortulv]

Psionics could logically form a Gestalt Consciousness, but it would not be the same as a Hive mind, it would be communal psionic link; where individuals are seperate entities that share information and thoughts over a link but remain independently operating individuals.

This is true as long as there is some barrier between individuals - but in a "full access, always on" type psionic link, it becomes more like the zerg. A single mind becomes too small to contain any signifigant memories, and would be more like a newborn baby than an adult if cut from the network. Might be possible to assimilate pops into and out of the psionic hivemind... It really sounds like a good story...

 

[Tacticus101]

This is true as long as there is some barrier between individuals - but in a "full access, always on" type psionic link, it becomes more like the zerg. A single mind becomes too small to contain any signifigant memories, and would be more like a newborn baby than an adult if cut from the network. Might be possible to assimilate pops into and out of the psionic hivemind... It really sounds like a good story...

The Zerg are more one mind controlling the others. Its a single mind where every drone and individual is an extension of the Hive Mind's will.

A Psionic Gestalt Consciousness would be more like a distributed computing network, where each additional individual adds to the network. Memories for those Psionics would be more like cloud storage, each individual has their own personality and memories but can access the group memories at any point instantly. Removing someone from the Consciousness would probably be a very traumatising event, but they would be able to function seperately unlike a Hive Mind.

 

[WhapXI]

Although... I can't help but feel like "rampaging hive mind" fits better as the Bio Ascension version? Accidently creating The Thing or something similar.

I think about this a bunch. I tend to think "radical bloc of gene warriors tries to take control" should be the bio crisis.

Like if you have pops with a positive Bio-asc trait (like Robust or Erudite) but who aren't free or aren't citizens and aren't the empire's primary species or something, then they're start becoming radical supremacists and rise up with armies of xenophobic gene warriors.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I think about this a bunch. I tend to think "radical bloc of gene warriors tries to take control" should be the bio crisis.

Like if you have pops with a positive Bio-asc trait (like Robust or Erudite) but who aren't free or aren't citizens and aren't the empire's primary species or something, then they're start becoming radical supremacists and rise up with armies of xenophobic gene warriors.

Biotech already has an "uprising" event where an enhanced population that's being mistreated turns to terrorism- the Self-Modified event chain.

 

[Losttruppen]

I think a lot of people are getting too caught up with OP choosing Hivemind vs Gestalt Consciousness or spiritualist vs another ethos, where either could fit depending on how it was implemented and all rebellions could be a bit more fleshed out depending on your empire and pops.

I'm all for more fluff to flesh out rebellions and pop personalities(or lack thereof), for all empire types, and make the universe feel like these are sapient creatures we're messing with. Right now all pops act like basic robots in how they interact with player choices. Most rebellions feel more a result of a disjointed number on the planet screen being red and random planet modifiers abstracting conflicts while the pops continue on producing at exactly the same rate as if they had 100% happiness other than one or two getting a criminal job. I'd love to see a couple workers/slaves with unequal rights get pissed a start a little rebellion like the Red Hand event and go off and start a criminal haven or cultist fane on an asteroid or space station that can grow organically into a bigger and bigger threat, rather than just an event firing at x% in the red and you lose a whole system and planet with no chance to fight back.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I think a lot of people are getting too caught up with OP choosing Hivemind vs Gestalt Consciousness or spiritualist vs another ethos, where either could fit depending on how it was implemented and all rebellions could be a bit more fleshed out depending on your empire and pops.

I'm all for more fluff to flesh out rebellions and pop personalities(or lack thereof), for all empire types, and make the universe feel like these are sapient creatures we're messing with. Right now all pops act like basic robots in how they interact with player choices. Most rebellions feel more a result of a disjointed number on the planet screen being red and random planet modifiers abstracting conflicts while the pops continue on producing at exactly the same rate as if they had 100% happiness other than one or two getting a criminal job. I'd love to see a couple workers/slaves with unequal rights get pissed a start a little rebellion like the Red Hand event and go off and start a criminal haven or cultist fane on an asteroid or space station that can grow organically into a bigger and bigger threat, rather than just an event firing at x% in the red and you lose a whole system and planet with no chance to fight back.

I expect better rebellion mechanics to be part of the Diplomacy overhaul, hopefully; they'll likely tie in to the new auto-defined sectors, and if we can have a solid rebellion mechanic then that can be cross-applied to stuff like the AI Rebellion.

 

[sortulv]

A Psionic Gestalt Consciousness would be more like a distributed computing network, where each additional individual adds to the network. Memories for those Psionics would be more like cloud storage, each individual has their own personality and memories but can access the group memories at any point instantly. Removing someone from the Consciousness would probably be a very traumatising event, but they would be able to function seperately unlike a Hive Mind.

If each individual node has a separate personality and memory, then you do not have a GC. You just have a normal empire at that point.
What I was talking about earlier, was when the barriers between individuals break down. You can no longer tell the difference between what you did and what any other "individual" did. You are ONE. Think of it as combining telepathy and drugs...

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

Biotech already has an "uprising" event where an enhanced population that's being mistreated turns to terrorism- the Self-Modified event chain.

The chain only fires once for me, it's outcome (a few dead pops) is of little importance and it's a dead end anyway, an ambassador visits your capital and you never hear from them again.

 

[Tacticus101]

If each individual node has a separate personality and memory, then you do not have a GC. You just have a normal empire at that point.
What I was talking about earlier, was when the barriers between individuals break down. You can no longer tell the difference between what you did and what any other "individual" did. You are ONE. Think of it as combining telepathy and drugs...

I know, i said earlier "A group mind could be the extreme result".

But it would still be a distributed network, each individual would add to the 'consciousness' rather than simply being drones controlled by an existing mind and be able to theoretically function seperately. Its not really the same as a hive mind in Stellaris.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

The chain only fires once for me, it's outcome (a few dead pops) is of little importance and it's a dead end anyway, an ambassador visits your capital and you never hear from them again.

Then there's plenty of room to expand on it, isn't there?

 

[klopkr]

The Zerg are more one mind controlling the others. Its a single mind where every drone and individual is an extension of the Hive Mind's will.

A Psionic Gestalt Consciousness would be more like a distributed computing network, where each additional individual adds to the network. Memories for those Psionics would be more like cloud storage, each individual has their own personality and memories but can access the group memories at any point instantly. Removing someone from the Consciousness would probably be a very traumatising event, but they would be able to function seperately unlike a Hive Mind.

Huh. I was thinking more along the lines of subsuming the will of others and copying yourself onto them and being a bit of a semi-autonomous puppet master.

 

[sortulv]

I know, i said earlier "A group mind could be the extreme result".

But it would still be a distributed network, each individual would add to the 'consciousness' rather than simply being drones controlled by an existing mind and be able to theoretically function seperately. Its not really the same as a hive mind in Stellaris.

Imagine this: you have a perfect internet, so that communication is instant. You store everything on the cloud, including the OS.
Now disconnect from the internet. Your computer is pretty much useless at this point.

That is what we're talking about.