Poll 32 vs 64 bit

[spacemarine658]

I'm not asking PDX to change their development of HOI4 from 32 to 64 this is just for my own curiosity and remeber guys this is just a portion of all the people who play PDX games not everyone uses the forums.

Survey:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rbhEwnYMzdtWFdOVMsYkv49ckZFj8sAV-mRZru6KDGc/viewform

 

[KiwiNoob]

Moving to 64bit will make precisely no difference to anything.

A petition on getting PDS to multi-thread the engine would be far more useful.

 

[spacemarine658]

Moving to 64bit will make precisely no difference to anything.

A petition on getting PDS to multi-thread the engine would be far more useful.

dude it already is multithreaded look up eu benchmarks it uses all cores plus it actually would help because 1 EUIV(vanilla + dlc) uses all of my 4 gb of ram on my laptop so im sure HOI4 will too and the new computer I am building will have at minmum 16 gb so having the ability to go up to 8 would help a ton when mods are added besides this isn't a petition just a poll for my own curiosity which it says

 

[Rulestormer]

I think what KiwiNoob meant is EU4 performance doesn't scale linearly to the number of CPU cores you have.
Too much game logic is still running on one core.
In that sense improving multi-threading would benefit more than 64 bit.
Having better multi-threading is a practical advantage, that has benefits in all scenarios/applications.
64bit support is a theoretical advantage, where you only see a benefit when you need >4 GB.

 

[spacemarine658]

I think what KiwiNoob meant is EU4 performance doesn't scale linearly to the number of CPU cores you have.
Too much game logic is still running on one core.
In that sense improving multi-threading would benefit more than 64 bit.
Having better multi-threading is a practical advantage, that has benefits in all scenarios/applications.
64bit support is a theoretical advantage, where you only see a benefit when you need >4 GB.

well I personally have noticed crashes on my junk laptop from hitting the 4gb limit thats why i would prefer a higher limit and btw a direct quote from johan "Yes. Ai, music and quite alot of mechanics is spread over various cores."

 

[AlfredMV]

I have all eu4 expansions even minor ones, not once in 500 hours has it crashed for that reason. In fact it never crashes except for occasional launch crashes. A 64 bit option would be nice, not required.

 

[LordOfWar16]

I think what KiwiNoob meant is EU4 performance doesn't scale linearly to the number of CPU cores you have.
Too much game logic is still running on one core.
In that sense improving multi-threading would benefit more than 64 bit.
Having better multi-threading is a practical advantage, that has benefits in all scenarios/applications.
64bit support is a theoretical advantage, where you only see a benefit when you need >4 GB.

You cant have an linear increase in performance with more cores. It is impossibe since there are tasks that only the first core can do and the other cores may need to wait for the first one to finish certain tasks before they can do their part. You cant offload everything from core 0 to another, thats not how things work. Especially in gaming pretty much everything needs to be done in an specific sequence, so alot of the time your cores need to wait for each other to finish their tasks before they can work on their tasks.

Thats why we cant see an full 100% 100% 100% 100% utilization on an 4 core cpu in gaming, since 3 cores might be idle for some time.

 

[Enewald]

Just wait for the 64-bit DLC/expansion

 

[Zaku]

Just wait for the 64-bit DLC/expansion

That cannot be done, since the engine doesn't support 64 bits.

 

[semaphore]

That cannot be done, since the engine doesn't support 64 bits.

I don't think you understand what you're talking about. Assuming no reliance on 32-bit-exclusive third party libraries, it won't be that much trouble to port 32-bit code to 64-bit. Yes, they'd probably want to do some optimisations etc, but the real decision is whether Paradox thinks having 4+ gb of RAM is worth the loss of 32-bit support.

well I personally have noticed crashes on my junk laptop from hitting the 4gb limit thats why i would prefer a higher limit

More likely a memory leak.

 

[Zaku]

I don't think you understand what you're talking about. Assuming no reliance on 32-bit-exclusive third party libraries, it won't be that much trouble to port 32-bit code to 64-bit. Yes, they'd probably want to do some optimisations etc, but the real decision is whether Paradox thinks having 4+ gb of RAM is worth the loss of 32-bit support.


More likely a memory leak.

No, porting C++ to 64 bits is not so easy as you describe it.
It can be done but they definitely won't remake the engine. (Not for a DLC at least)

 

[semaphore]

No, porting C++ to 64 bits is not so easy as you describe it.
They definitely won't remake the engine.

That doesn't even make sense. C++ is a programming language. How do you port a language to 64-bit?

 

[Zaku]

That doesn't even make sense. C++ is a programming language. How do you port a language to 64-bit?

Clausewitz is written in c++

 

[semaphore]

Clausewitz is written in c++

C++ is not 32-bit only.

As was the case in the previous thread, it seems many people really have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to technical stuff.

 

[Zaku]

C++ is not 32-bit only.

As was the case in the previous thread, it seems many people really have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to technical stuff.

So you think they just say that from tomorrow the games will support 64 bit? They would need to work a lot with the engine for that to happen.

 

[semaphore]

So you think they just say that from tomorrow the games will support 64 bit? They would need to work a lot with the engine for that to happen.

I don't know what "work a lot" is to you, but clearly it won't require a engine remake like you originally claimed. Porting from 32-bit to 64-bit is somewhat troublesome, but not so much so that you'd prefer to rewrite a whole game engine.

 

[Zaku]

I don't know what "work a lot" is to you, but clearly it won't require a engine remake like you originally claimed. Porting from 32-bit to 64-bit is somewhat troublesome, but not so much so that you'd prefer to rewrite a whole game engine.

I never said that they need to rewrite the whole engine. I said that they need to remake the engine. While you assumed that I meant they need to make it all again from scratch, that was not what I meant.

 

[spacemarine658]

I never said that they need to rewrite the whole engine. I said that they need to remake the engine. While you assumed that I meant they need to make it all again from scratch, that was not what I meant.

first to rmdsc yeah i think there is a memory leak it runs fine if i restart after each time i play, and to you zaku I am a computer science major in a college (senior) I have taken c++ and coded programs 32 bit to 64 bit (depending on how extensive their files are) would roughly take between 2 to 3 weeks (assuming a lot of their work is changing directories etc to allow for that) assuming that they plan on releasing sometime next year its not too crazy to imagine creating two versions 32 bit and 64 bit (again I don't know their work flow but assuming its similar to my companies that I run they have some sort of software that uses branches and merges so they could branch a 64 bit and 32 bit version then use the branches to add other features later to both) yes it would take more effort and time but the end result is a game that more computer can run better

 

[semaphore]

first to rmdsc yeah i think there is a memory leak it runs fine if i restart after each time i play

Yeah. I have all the expansions and its usually not much more than 1gb or so. I imagine if you use mods it could surge much higher though.

I said that they need to remake the engine. While you assumed that I meant they need to make it all again from scratch, that was not what I meant.

Gee I wonder why I would "assume" that by remake, you meant make again...


remake ‎(third-person singular simple present remakes, present participle remaking, simple past and past participle remade)

1. (transitive) To make again.

from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remake

 

[Zaku]

Yeah. I have all the expansions and its usually not much more than 1gb or so. I imagine if you use mods it could surge much higher though.




Gee I wonder why I would "assume" that by remake, you meant make again...


remake ‎(third-person singular simple present remakes, present participle remaking, simple past and past participle remade)

1. (transitive) To make again.

from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remake

Now you're nitpicking.
That definition doesn't mean that you have to start all over do remake somethink.
You can make again a program also by only modifying it.