Polish disaster - pacifism, deurbanization etc.

[moscal]

Polish szlachta had many shortcoming. Pacifism, skepticism to urbanisation, hostility towards a strong, centralized monarchy, tendency to isolationism etc. IRL supremacy of szlachta lead to many negative effects, and finally lead to collapse on this country (PLC). In game we haven't any mechanism, leading to real problems in PLC. Only weak mechanism of liberum veto

What should give disaster? Ban on offensive wars, higher dev costs and corruption.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

There is already a Polish disaster dealing with the Szlachta. The Struggle for Royal Power

 

[moscal]

There is already a Polish disaster dealing with the Szlachta. The Struggle for Royal Power

This disaster is simulation of quasi-civil-war leading by szlachta against absolutization of power. Not situation of paralysis of state by szlachta.

 

[fr-rein]

PDX specifically avoids that. PLC is given laughable tolerance bonuses it never had, Cossacks as estate were never a big issue before 1.30 and after it they nearly can't rebel at all.

In fact, PDX just treats PLC as Poland and neglects even it's Lithuanian counterpart.

It's just design and insight into regional history that is shallower than Polynesian one. No offence to Polynesia, just taking an example of a rather isolated and obscure region

Not situation of paralysis of state by szlachta.

It can be possible with new estates, new mechanics allows for it. But given the most recent 1.27 changes the design of Poland seems to be intentional.

There are no reasons to expect that this region will change again anytime soon.

 

[moscal]

It can be possible with new estates, new mechanics allows for it. But given the most recent 1.27 changes the design of Poland seems to be intentional.

Nope. New mechanism of estate make this more impossible than old estate mechanism. In praxis I never see PLC with noble estate disaster but this should be main "sword of Damocles" for this country. Nah! Ever polish mechanism and quasi-chain-of-events can be easy avoid, if player use all place of privilege for Szlachta - primary events for POL never start and whole problem "Aristocratic Coup" go to non-existence.

 

[fr-rein]

Nope. New mechanism of estate make this more impossible than old estate mechanism. In praxis I never see PLC with noble estate disaster but this should be main "sword of Damocles" for this country. Nah! Ever polish mechanism and quasi-chain-of-events can be easy avoid, if player use all place of privilege for Szlachta - primary events for POL never start and whole problem "Aristocratic Coup" go to non-existence.

I mean, yes, it is intentionally made avoidable and occurring less. As well as other non-early catastrophes were either nerfed or given a huge tradeoff (like The Troubles for Russia). EU4 players dislike events in midgame or late game that make things hard (Dutch revolt primarily, to the lesser extent Reformation). EU4 does add starting challenges but that phase it kinda avoids adding challenges.

So for Poland to see in midgame major magnate rebellions or have actual Cossack Uprising? Nope. Doesn't look like it'll happen.

And another thing is that PDX lies about Polish "tolerance" to Orthodoxy and such only entrench wrong player image of the region further. Most people don't see any issues at all with Eastern Europe. So there is more incentive to them change things in Polynesia than change something in Poland.

 

[moscal]

And another thing is that PDX lies about Polish "tolerance" to Orthodoxy

Pdx must choose the most mechanical functional to represent that, however, Orthodoxy was not full destroyed in Ruthenia. Without this element - Poland would have tendence to send missionaries into east Europe and convert this region to west christianity and in resoult - always in game Ruthenia would be catholic/protestant/reformed in medium game. Therefore IMO PDX select the best method.

Similar problem is in many nation, who had own separate transformation, evolution or revolution (eg, France).

 

[fr-rein]

Pdx must choose the most mechanical functional to represent that

The only reason it is this way is to not make PLC implode with Orthodox rebellions. But PDX never did anything for Orthodox to be able to rebel (unless Poland was ruined by external powers first). In fact limitations made on Cossacks were specific for it to never happen.

It is a conscious design choice. And the choice to have nobility to be unimpactful to Polish history was also a part of it.

They sell Poland stronk, Russia stronk. It sums up the EU4's transparent attitude to the region. Until it changes all suggestions are honestly futile unless you want Russia or Poland to be more stronk.

P.S. Of course simplifications were a necessity a while ago. But for the region they sold 2 DLCs and "Polish" patch while keeping the simplications and adding no depth and few details, hence the reason why region is shallow.