Polish cores on Memel and Ostpreussen? Why

[Mixxer5]

As above- I've noticed that for some reason Poland have cores on their vassal. Why? We've never held them for any period of time, only our vassal did. Cores on Silesia would be well in place instead- these lands were more or less Polish, so any claim for them would be much more likely than for Prussian provs.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Probably because Polish-Lithuanian union had claims to that area. Having cores there gives them proper casus belli against the Teutonic Order. Poland and the Teutonic Order had already fought series of wars about the control of the region before the game's start date.

 

[unmerged(779962)]

Probably because Polish-Lithuanian union had claims to that area. Having cores there gives them proper casus belli against the Teutonic Order.

Problem is that Poland itself is not Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I would agree that Commonwealth could have those cores but not Poland itself because Lithuania could add them as they were of similar culture.

What people tend to forget that Commonwealth is not Poland ... it’s a union. Fact that polish had dominant role does not decrees the role of other countries because all nobles were equal no matter if they were Lithuanian, Byelorussian, Polish or Ukrainian.

 

[Mixxer5]

Probably because Polish-Lithuanian union had claims to that area. Having cores there gives them proper casus belli against the Teutonic Order. Poland and the Teutonic Order had already fought series of wars about the control of the region before the game's start date.

Yeah, but we already have claims for province, so why cores? That's one thing- other is that TO in 1492 Polish vassal and should be easy to annex.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Problem is that Poland itself is not Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I would agree that Commonwealth could have those cores but not Poland itself because Lithuania could add them as they were of similar culture.

What people tend to forget that Commonwealth is not Poland ... it’s a union. Fact that polish had dominant role does not decrees the role of other countries because all nobles were equal no matter if they were Lithuanian, Byelorussian, Polish or Ukrainian.

I'm not saying that it's not multinational union of of two realms, but at least in EUIII the leader usually pressed only his own claims. So removing the Polish claims and giving them to lesser partner in union (Lithuania) wouldn't actually help at all.

Yeah, but we already have claims for province, so why cores? That's one thing- other is that TO in 1492 Polish vassal and should be easy to annex.

I'm just guessing because I haven't tried the demo, so I'm not probably up to date in all aspects. In EUIII you had claims only if you had core or specific mission to that province, I don't know how it is in EUIV, but I guess it might be something similar or maybe cores are just carried over from EUIII.

 

[unmerged(779962)]

Yeah, but we already have claims for province, so why cores? That's one thing- other is that TO in 1492 Polish vassal and should be easy to annex.

I agree about the claims. And one more thing TO wasn't Polish vassal in 1492 ... it become a vassal after Prussian Homage in 1525.

“It should be easy to annex” , I disagree because TO very fast succumbed to reformation and secularization. Protestant population was afraid and generally against incorporation into catholic ruled country. Poland was rather tolerant but still Protestant rulers were afraid of contra-reformation movements that existed in Poland. Polish contra-reformation wasn’t brutal and nor was it militaristic but still newly established Prussian rulers wanted to hold back any priests who would talk sense back into people.

 

[Mixxer5]

I agree about the claims. And one more thing TO wasn't Polish vassal in 1492 ... it become a vassal after Prussian Homage in 1525.

“It should be easy to annex” , I disagree because TO very fast succumbed to reformation and secularization. Protestant population was afraid and generally against incorporation into catholic ruled country. Poland was rather tolerant but still Protestant rulers were afraid of contra-reformation movements that existed in Poland. Polish contra-reformation wasn’t brutal and nor was it militaristic but still newly established Prussian rulers wanted to hold back any priests who would talk sense back into people.

No, no- You misunderstood me. TO IS vassal of Poland, even if that's not exactly historically plausible And in terms of EU4 it should be easy to annex. After maxing relations to 190 You can annex any vassal, it only takes various amounts of time.

I'd really prefer that Paradox gives us mission/claims on Silesia instead of strange cores on Prussia...

 

[Sleight of Hand]

When the bug forum is up, we can start reporting historical inaccuracies and whatnot.

 

[Mixxer5]

When the bug forum is up, we can start reporting historical inaccuracies and whatnot.

I guess it'll be most active forum here

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I guess it'll be most active forum here

Well you gots to get in line.

 

[unmerged(779962)]

And in terms of EU4 it should be easy to annex. After maxing relations to 190 You can annex any vassal, it only takes various amounts of time.

That is the problem. Diplomatic mission to improve relations gives only 100 points. Rest has to be earned in other ways. Moreover game should implement those general discordance between population. It’s only natural for Protestant country to be reluctant to being incorporated by Catholic country. That should make incorporating this kind of vassal even more troublesome but not impossible if the player is a stubborn ox.

 

[Mixxer5]

Well you gots to get in line.

I guess it's not just me then

That is the problem. Diplomatic mission to improve relations gives only 100 points. Rest has to be earned in other ways. Moreover game should implement those general discordance between population. It’s only natural for Protestant country to be reluctant to being incorporated by Catholic country. That should make incorporating this kind of vassal even more troublesome but not impossible if the player is a stubborn ox.

If someone is You vassal or PU, You can max relations with him to 200. I know because I made some minor my vassal as Ottos.

 

[rybka]

I only had a quick look on map in demo, but it seemed that Poland in 1492 did not have cores on Mazovia? This would be strange having in mind cores on Ducal Prussia.
The last Mazovian lands were incorporated in 1525, while parts of Ducal Prussia only in 1945...

 

[Mixxer5]

I only had a quick look on map in demo, but it seemed that Poland in 1492 did not have cores on Mazovia? This would be strange having in mind cores on Ducal Prussia.
The last Mazovian lands were incorporated in 1525, while parts of Ducal Prussia only in 1945...

Incorporating vassal having Your own culture seems to give cores on their provinces nonetheless.

 

[Baikal]

Another thing, I noticed that the TO in the demo is a bishopric while the Livonians are still a monastic order. What's up with that? I was under the impression that the TO stayed a monastic order until it was secularised.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Another thing, I noticed that the TO in the demo is a bishopric while the Livonians are still a monastic order. What's up with that? I was under the impression that the TO stayed a monastic order until it was secularised.

I agree that's confusing, but it's how the system works. They're both monastic order theocracies, but because the TO are a vassal, it calls them a bishopric.

Likewise, independent duchies like Burgundy and Brittany are called kingdoms until they're vassalized, at which point they're called duchies.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Oh, Burgundy still has a core on Rethel despite all the other Dutch cores being removed in 1477.

 

[Thure]

I agree that's confusing, but it's how the system works. They're both monastic order theocracies, but because the TO are a vassal, it calls them a bishopric.

I would prefer a own government for monastic orders. With elections similar to the republics. I mean... A monastic order can choose the head of state. A normal theocracy can't choose it on it's own.

And there is only one form of theocracies... That's boring. eventually a theocratic monarchy for Persia?

 

[Baikal]

I agree that's confusing, but it's how the system works. They're both monastic order theocracies, but because the TO are a vassal, it calls them a bishopric.

Likewise, independent duchies like Burgundy and Brittany are called kingdoms until they're vassalized, at which point they're called duchies.

Shoot. You're right. I totally forgot that. Yeah, it's still weird having the Livonian knights as a monastic order but the TO as a bishopric. Meh, deteils, who cares, all theocracies got the same bona anyway.