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DominusNovus

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What is the break-even point for any policies that can reduce monarch point costs?

For example, take the Humanist-Trade policy: Exchange of Ideas. If you were to take those as your first 2 national idea groups, and had that policy activated for every subsequent idea group, you would save 1680 monarch points. So, as long as you spend less than 1680 months (140 years) with the policy active, you've at least broken even in total monarch point costs. Or, to look at it another way: So long as you can complete an idea set in 23 years, 4 months with EoI activated, you're ahead of the game.

That one's easy to figure out. Its the others that are trickier. For example, take the three policies that reduce advisor costs (each by -10%): Education Act, Foreign Advisors, Diplomatic Cooperation. Even running all 3 of those, if you're able to afford 3 3-star advisors where you would have only been able to afford 2's before, you break perfectly even. However, that assumes that you have 3-star advisors in each category available, and that you couldn't afford them without those policies.

Then, there are others, like Cultural Unity, which gives you an additional -20% to cultural conversion costs. At 25 points per base tax, so long as you convert provinces equivalent to 2.4 base tax per year, you're breaking even. Of course, this is not exactly the most practical use of your monarch points in the first place, so thats not a very good consideration, either (granted, if you're Muscovy/Russia, this bumps you up to -65%, not too bad).

Are there any other policies that can pay for themselves, outside of very specific scenarios?
 

Incompetent

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Only a few policies give purely monarch point benefits, which I think is by design. With most policies, it's best to use them 10-year bursts, and lay the groundwork beforehand to get maximum benefit in that period.

Admin+Influence: -20% diplomatic annexation cost
Actually this isn't quite pure, because it also makes the annexation complete faster. Still, it can definitely pay for itself with a really big annexation.

Religious+Influence: -20% culture conversion cost
The beauty of this one is that you can cram a lot of culture conversion in a short space of time - you'd only ever need to leave this one running for the minimum 10-year stint. So e.g. as Russia, you can wait until you have conquered a huge chunk of Asia, save up 1000 points, and then go mad with culture conversion, converting dozens of provinces at once (focusing on provinces with a high manpower to tax ratio). I'd say this is potentially a good move once per game if you don't have Humanism, but I probably wouldn't do it very often.

Humanism+Trade: -10% idea cost, +0.5 prestige
Another classic burst policy. In general, you won't be buying 3 or more ideas in the space of 10 years, but you certainly can if you save up beforehand. The prestige bonus is gravy.

Various policies: -10% stability cost
Generally won't pay for itself, but it can for some extreme truce-breaker approaches where you stack stability cost reductions and raise stability several times per year.

With most of the others, it's very difficult to make them pay for themselves in straight monarch points. For instance: going from +2/+2/+2 to +3/+2/+2 is still a 58% increase in costs, so even with a -10% policy, you're probably still paying a lot more money than before unless you have stacked other advisor cost reductions, and are so poor that you can't afford better advisors even with those cost reductions. It's possible some of the generic economic ones could pay for an advisor upgrade early on, but only in special circumstances.
 

TheMeInTeam

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It's tough to quantify the ones that give multiple bonuses. For example, for -1 ADM/month you are not just getting -10% cost, you're also getting -10% AE impact, or the additional diprep for the DIP/month one.

IMO most attractive stuff is stuff like offensive + diplomatic giving -AE and +1 diprep, allowing you to offload military points into other things in the late game.
 

tapewormlondon

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And isnt it rather hard to qualify a "break even point"? I mean numerically its certainly easy, but the additional benefits that those may give you cant be discared.

For example, if you have -10% mil tech, you could end up one crucial tech ahead of your enemy, allowing you to win a difficult war and claim a multitude of provinces. This has immense value too no?

Its like buldings that produce money, most of them only pay themselves off over a 100 years, but I see them as allowing me to support a larger army and win more wars, thus I dont reason if they can pay themselves off by game end, but if they can give me an advantage in the game and be valuable that way.
 

Prom_STar

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I find the monarch point reducing ides to be on lower end. Policies that boost colonization, make your troops stronger, or make your empire more stable all strike me as worth the investment. 20% infantry/cavalry/artillery power is well worth the price if you can lever that to big time blobbing. Religious unity policies can be the difference between a stable empire and one split by rebellion. And getting an extra colonist and a couple dozen extra settlers per year is huge for any colonizer.

Westernization has never been easier and once you're westernized, you'll have more points than you know what to do with. At that point, some policies are just no-brainers. 73% cavalry power as Poland is hilarious.
 

Pornek

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It's tough to quantify the ones that give multiple bonuses. For example, for -1 ADM/month you are not just getting -10% cost, you're also getting -10% AE impact, or the additional diprep for the DIP/month one.

IMO most attractive stuff is stuff like offensive + diplomatic giving -AE and +1 diprep, allowing you to offload military points into other things in the late game.

Agreed.
The quantity + diplo, the admin + influence and diplo + offensive are imo the best ones.