Poland vs Ottomans

[MatthewP]

I've tried this a few times, (without Crimea) and the Ottos still cross and wreck me. Reckon I'll just avoid war with them until Miltech 19, and focus on destroying Russia instead.



This is really helpful, thanks for sharing. Looks like Eastern infantry doesn't compare to Anatolian until Miltech 14, and cavalry not until Miltech 19. Seems like there's no point going after Ottos until 19 (I see your point about numbers, but the Ottos generally seem to have way more troops than me early on, and given how useless many AI allies are... May as well just wait)



Haha this is the problem I'm having, their armies absolutely wreck mine no matter what I try. :-D

If it’s not working early, I would say don’t worry so much about tech groups. Wait until you have all of your (really really strong) military national ideas. Get quantity or quality/offensive, or more than 1 of these. Build armies with decent numbers of cavalry. Now you should be strong enough that tactics/strategy don’t matter as much.

 

[Stigandr]

Beginning to think Poland is just the wrong country for me. I really struggle with the silliness of my allies/vassals. Decided to hold off on fighting the Ottomans until much later, but that it would be worth kneecapping Muscovy early instead. So, after getting Danzig, Lithuania and Moldova vassalised/PU'd via events, I allied Novgorod, made Lithuania fabricate claims on Muscovite territory, and declared war. Muscovy produced a top-tier general who proceeded to wipe the floor with my allies/vassal armies one by one, even though I told them all to be supportive and stick close to me. Maybe I should play a power that doesn't have lots of vassals...

 

[Quickmelty]

Hi all,

Looking for help as Poland v the Ottomans. I've not played as Poland before, so was exploring the new electoral mechanics etc. Slowed Muscovy's growth, but didn't halt it. Fed Moscow and a few other provinces to Lithuania. Ate Teutons and Livonian Order (though Denmark picked up Estonia)

As well as PU'd Lithuania, I'm allied with Austria, Mamluks, and Great Horde (the last mostly to stop Muscowy eating them) and also have a vassalised Luneburg. Overall we outnumber Ottos and friends 2-1, and I declared war when they were already at war to their east (against QK and friends).

Reader, they annhilated us. Trashed mine and Austria's armies in the Balkans, then turned south and annhilated Mamluks. I gave up and quit when they sent their armies north to take on Lithuania and Great Horde in the Crimea.

Don't think I'm very good at this game, so it could be strategic incompetence on my part - but how do you actually take on the Ottomans before getting superstrong yourself? Their armies and generals are so good, and they can choose who they face, even if you surround them. Is it just a case of avoiding war with the Ottomans until much much later? (this was in early 16th C, should I wait until 17th or even 18th C?)

This was Ironman, so I'll have to start again, (even before they'd taken any of my land, when I asked them to suggest peace demands, they wanted half my country...) but any tips would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Stigandr

In an MP game with my friend the ottoman manpower with quantity ideas and the ottoman first idea unlocked they can field 150k troops and that's after me (proto russia, lithuania to ruthenia into russia later) beat the utter shit out of them, released the byzantines and cut their expansion path in the steppes. They quite literally only have anatolia and parts of the steps and bulgaria.

They get a succession of good leaders consistently and lucky nations doesn't really help that fact. They should just remove this garbage after 200 years (lucky nations) because having it plus a succession of wonderful leaders (6 or 5 in most category's maybe a 4 in diplo) doesn't allow for a player to see the effect of utterly dominating one of the region's highest powers. I, as the byzantines in a single player game no less could not even match that kind of manpower with my ideas unlocked and with quantity while eating most of the steppe. At most I had 60k troops at one time while maintaining a positive economy and this was WITH most of anatolia taken. The manpower recovery speed matches MINE as ruthenia.

 

[MatthewP]

Beginning to think Poland is just the wrong country for me. I really struggle with the silliness of my allies/vassals. Decided to hold off on fighting the Ottomans until much later, but that it would be worth kneecapping Muscovy early instead. So, after getting Danzig, Lithuania and Moldova vassalised/PU'd via events, I allied Novgorod, made Lithuania fabricate claims on Muscovite territory, and declared war. Muscovy produced a top-tier general who proceeded to wipe the floor with my allies/vassal armies one by one, even though I told them all to be supportive and stick close to me. Maybe I should play a power that doesn't have lots of vassals...

do you use the trick of splitting off a regiment and having allies/vassals attach to it? That way you don’t have to count on their intelligence and basically use their armies directly. Just make sure you don’t attach a high maneuver general to your regiment so you get to battles a day early and get stack wiped.

 

[holyvigil]

I've tried this a few times, (without Crimea) and the Ottos still cross and wreck me. Reckon I'll just avoid war with them until Miltech 19, and focus on destroying Russia instead.



This is really helpful, thanks for sharing. Looks like Eastern infantry doesn't compare to Anatolian until Miltech 14, and cavalry not until Miltech 19. Seems like there's no point going after Ottos until 19 (I see your point about numbers, but the Ottos generally seem to have way more troops than me early on, and given how useless many AI allies are... May as well just wait)



Haha this is the problem I'm having, their armies absolutely wreck mine no matter what I try. :-D

If you are really having trouble try looking up Byzantium strategy videos on YouTube. You are basically doing those videos except +5 years and you are stronger.

 

[adin85]

Everything depend of luck.
1) Ally Austria( Best situation is when Hunyadi is main king for Hungary and Austria dont get PU for Hungary)
2) PU Lithuania
3 and 4) PU Bohemia and March Moldova
5) Vassalize Wallachia
6) Ottomans dont get in meantime Crimean as march.
7) Get defender of faith
8) Wait for Ottomans Mameluks war.