Poland Mission to vassalize TO

[wildbillhdmax01]

*wonderful applause* well if you say so, it must be so! Who needs to argue anything?



Where's your entitlement come from that you you think any mission should be completable in one go? There are plenty that can't.

Well I'm saying it's bugged to me.

The reason I think It should be done in one go is because it was like that for many patches. It seems that I was meant to be done in one war. THe mission was made in mind to be done in a single mission. If It isn't meant to be done in one go why just give the subjugation CB? Why not have you just conquer them? Why is it one of 1st mission you get as Poland.

 

[Xara]

Prove it wasn't the first iteration that was 'bugged'.

What makes you think you are meant to get it while Brandenburg's core is still owned in Neumark by TO? If they reclaim it, you can finish in one war.

There are lots of 'missions' you can get early that don't necessarily apply. Ever seen "Italian Ambition" on 1450's Portugal? Yeah. Doesn't give you a claim or any way to attack an Italian-area nation.

 

[penco]

I ran into this same problem--I discovered that the required warscore was over 100% after I had already started the war. By a total stroke of luck, Brandenburg DoWed the Teutons as soon I stomped their armies. I just waited for Brandenburg to annex Neumark before making peace, and I was able to vassalize.

 

[Rabid]

One of the patches made the TO's provinces more valuable which is why you can no longer vassal them while they still hold Neumark, as the total base tax of provinces is too high. The patch note was very ambiguous, something like "strengthened Teutonic Order".

I always just DoW and leave Neumark unoccupied, Brandenburg usually gets the message sooner or later.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Folks, no need to be rude to each other. Personally, I wouldn't really call it cheating if he takes the mission, fought an honest war and used console for this particular mission. After all, in a single player game, you only need to be honest and fair to yourself. It may not be a bug, but I'd call it a developer oversight.

I do think the hard-coded event missions should allow vassalization at maximum 100%. I vassalized Scotland in my previous game. I'd rage if I play England for the second time and find out they patched it in the mean time to strengthen Scotland and the vassalization score is now 108%. I'm not a saintly figure and I don't think I'd feel the game is playing itself fair. I heard the OE gets mission to vassalize Algiers which it cannot. I haven't done it myself, but if I got the mission without the previous knowledge that it cannot be done, and used the Subjugation CB like... most casual players who don't visit forums and nerd it up on the wikis etc, I'd feel no less than frustrated.

As an aside, the missions are probably some of the weakest parts of the game as a whole. The Italian Ambition as mentioned before doesn't give any claim and it's basically pointless. Alternatively, 'Kick Aragon out of Italy' thing that Italian nations get doesn't offer any claim. Just a few points of prestige - I'm not saying prestige is bad, but by the time I killed enough Aragonese armies and got the peace my prestige was maxed out already. Huh, great mission. Maybe it could at least reduce the AE to other Italian nations? Nah, I'm just being silly there's no way such a thing could exist.

 

[grisamentum]

Folks, no need to be rude to each other. Personally, I wouldn't really call it cheating if he takes the mission, fought an honest war and used console for this particular mission.

Sorry, console is cheating. There's a reason it's not allowed in ironman.

The game was updated and changed. Using console so that he can play it as if the change never happened is cheating.

 

[passengerpigeon]

Regardless of whether it's intended or not that you can no longer vassalize Teutonic Order in one war, there's really a fundamental UI problem here -- in order to find out whether you'll be able to use subjugation, you have to declare war and then look at the war score requirement. It would be very helpful to have some sort of warning or indication for situations where you're declaring war with a goal that's impossible to accomplish. (Another example might be declaring war with a claim on somebody's capital, since you won't actually be able to take that province.)

 

[penco]

Regardless of whether it's intended or not that you can no longer vassalize Teutonic Order in one war, there's really a fundamental UI problem here -- in order to find out whether you'll be able to use subjugation, you have to declare war and then look at the war score requirement. It would be very helpful to have some sort of warning or indication for situations where you're declaring war with a goal that's impossible to accomplish. (Another example might be declaring war with a claim on somebody's capital, since you won't actually be able to take that province.)

Or even just a list of the war score required for common peace deals for a given CB. When you select your CB in a war, a mouseover could show how much it would cost for war goal, full annexation, vassalization, religious conversion, etc.

This is something I wanted a lot in EU3 also.

 

[Roelath]

It's suppose to go in this order...

1. Brandenburg retakes Neumark with the help of Allies (Most likely Austria).
2. Poland PUs with Lithuania.
3. Poland takes the subjugation mission and attacks the TO. Since Neumark is no longer part of the TO you can fully vassalize the TO in one go.


If you break this order or the AI does they tend to take land from Poland and eventually drop the vassalize for the complete conquest.

 

[Red John]

Can't you just claim TO's land and then use the subjugation CB? I think rivaling them also reduces WS cost too.

 

[grisamentum]

Can't you just claim TO's land and then use the subjugation CB? I think rivaling them also reduces WS cost too.

No and no.

 

[Red John]

No and no.

That hurts

 

[penco]

That hurts

To clarify, rivaling only reduces the amount of DIP points you have to spend in the peace deal. Doesn't affect the peace cost in terms of warscore points.

 

[StatikShocker]

you can add up base taxes of provinces, and put it into whatever formula there is for warscore cost

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Regardless of whether it's intended or not that you can no longer vassalize Teutonic Order in one war, there's really a fundamental UI problem here -- in order to find out whether you'll be able to use subjugation, you have to declare war and then look at the war score requirement. It would be very helpful to have some sort of warning or indication for situations where you're declaring war with a goal that's impossible to accomplish. (Another example might be declaring war with a claim on somebody's capital, since you won't actually be able to take that province.)

you can add up base taxes of provinces, and put it into whatever formula there is for warscore cost

I agree with passengerpigeon there. 100%. Just think about it- just because you happen to be a fanatical gamer who reads forum posts and wiki it up for the formulas with calculators doesn't mean everyone else is. The game tells you to do X, and you find out you can't do X.

Ironman compatible or not, console or not. I don't think I'd resort to console because I know what will happen already, BUT if I didn't know I'd just call it bullshit and console. Call me a cheater I don't care.

 

[Reezy]

In my games with it, I found that I had to NOT take the mission until I had taken Neumark from them in the first war. If you take the mission, but then use a fabricated claim CB, you still won't be able to use your vassalization CB in the second war.

It's confusing and definitely counter-intuitive.

 

[RobRoy3]

Vassalize missions were designed before they made warscore cost drop as the war dragged on....

Other way around, when the vassalization missions were originally designed, the warscore cost would drop as the war dragged on.

This Missions is bugged. I worked fine before one of the patches.

Yes, primary reason is that the warscore cost no longer declines as the war drags on. Bug or WAD? Ask the devs. Basically, you'll need multiple wars, now. There may have been some adjustments to tax value of TEU provinces, I'm not sure about that.

 

[PedroVargas]

On a similar note: Does the subjugation CB for Scotland still work (in one war)?

 

[WeissRaben]

The mission should trigger when the Order has started waning definitively - less than 4 cities and no Danzig, Chelmno nor Neumark. Not that it is impossible right now, of course, but it would streamline it a bit and make it pop up in conditions similar to the ones it faced OTL.

 

[Rabid]

Something else that might help things go a little more historically would be a DHE for the sale of Neumark, so that if the TO is low on cash (or fits some other set of requirements) then Brandenburg gets the opportunity to purchase it. Of course it's somewhat rare that the TO doesn't lose Neumark in a peace deal fairly early on but it would still be an improvement.