Just curious if there's an event to unite the two, and if so how does it operate/what does it require? I think they were one country at one point.
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Not really one country, but you can call it so. Check db\events\major_pol for event id 3475.
Yeah, there's an event by which Poland inherits Lithuania, but in my experience it doesn't happen all that often. Since the 2 countries start out with good relations, and Lithuania is bigger than Poland, and the event can't happen until a fairly long time into the game, what often happens is that Lithuania diplo-annexes Poland before the Poles inherit them.
In the vanilla :
Between 1567 and 1572, If Poland exists (no others triggers), Lithuania propose to be annexed (event 3447).
If Poland accepts (first choice), his tech group become orthodox (event 3475).
In AGCEEP, it's different and more complicated.
Between 1567 and 1572, If Poland exists (no others triggers), Lithuania propose to be annexed (event 3447).
If Poland accepts (first choice), his tech group become orthodox (event 3475).
In AGCEEP, it's different and more complicated.
Wow, that's not quite like this.crash63 said:
First, it's not true that Poland existing is the only trigger. The event will only fire if Lithunia is not at war with Poland in the 1567-1572 period. BTW, getting inherited by Poland is also choice A for Lithuania.
Second, if Lithuania chooses to be inherited, then Poland gets the option to accept or not. But Polish tech group will change to orthodox not only if they accept, but whatever happens - it will change if Lithuania will choose to stay independent, and it will change just the same if they choose not to inherit Lithuania.
And Jack99 - apart from a brief period between 1791 and 1795, Poland and Lithuania were never historically one country.
What matters is income, not size. And their economies are similar, so Lithuania doesn't DV-DA Poland all that often. Especially as Poland tends to grow faster than Lithuania, and in richer provinces (german HRE compared to GH/russian).DPS said:
Given the impact of the change to othodox techgroup, I'd advise to DA Lithuania before 1567, or at least make sure that war rages for the full period. It's better than having your techcosts rise by 10%. The only reason to accept the inheritance is if they've growed in rich provinces, and you're paying much attention to BB : then, getting those provinces at 0.25 BB apiece is an interesting deal, but only in SP I suppose.
I prove with the Poland at no take the Lithuania.
I continue with 2 games
I finish and I favourite play with the Poland than not have take the Lithuania
(exuse for my english...o )
I continue with 2 games
I finish and I favourite play with the Poland than not have take the Lithuania
(exuse for my english...
o )
I like the inheritance event because of all the free cores. I play agceep though, so i forget what happens in vanilla
In AGCEEP there's the possibility of not slipping to the orthodox techgroup, so it's a viable option
|AXiN| said:
Poland is very fun to play with AGCEEP for this (and to conquer german provinces).
What are you talking about?robin74 said:
Practically Poland and Lithuania were one country since 1385 because they had the same king. And officially they became one country in 1569 and were together to 1795.
Jack76 said:What are you talking about?
Practically Poland and Lithuania were one country since 1385 because they had the same king. And officially they became one country in 1569 and were together to 1795.
Yeah that is right. Of course it was very federal country, where two provinces and specially Lithuania tried to be independant - thats why very often many times other kings tried to talk independly with Lithuanian magnates to do some things against the Polish-Lithuanian country, but all in all Poland and Lithuania as the geopolitical structure was one country. There was no independant and important Lithuanian foreign policy. Sometimes only lithuanian magnates were opposite to the King. But Polish magnates were oposite sometimes too.
I'm talking about the fact that while it may be difficult to grasp for someone living in today's world of nation-states and democracies that two different countries have the same monarch, it was not uncommon in the EU2 times. Just because Poland and Lithuania tended to have the same monarch (tended, because sometimes they had and sometimes they didn't, and the only reason why they sometimes did prior to 1569 was that Poland kept electing Lithuanian Grand Dukes as its kings) did not make them one country. The union of 1569 imposed the rule that they will have the same monarch and the same parliament, but they kept separate fiscal systems, separate tax systems, separate budgets, separate legal systems and separate armies. The union did not make them a single political entity.Jack76 said:What are you talking about?
This is both correct and incorrect.Jack76 said:What are you talking about?
Practically Poland and Lithuania were one country since 1385 because they had the same king. And officially they became one country in 1569 and were together to 1795.
In 1386, the Grand Duke of Lithuania, Jogaila, married Jadwiga, the daughter of Louis Bourbon, King of Poland and Hungary. Jadwiga had been crowned in 1384. Grand-Duke Jogaila (Jagiello in Polish) managed to convince the Polish nobility to accept his request to marry Jadwiga, which was confirmed by the treaty of Krewo (1385). By the terms of the treaty, Jogaila became joint ruler of Poland, and the overlord of the various feudal subordinates of Lithuania. This was modified in 1392 and again in 1401, so that the end result was that Jogaila/Jagiello/Wladyslaw (his Christian name after his 1386 baptism) became the feudal overlord of the Grand-Duke of Lithuania, who himself became the feudal overlord of the various lesser nobles of Lithuania. The countries remained seperate in all ways. Indeed, this "dynastic" union was less complete than the "personal" union of England and Scotland that lasted from 1603 through 1707.
Grand-Dukes continued to rule Lithuania until 1569. In 1568, the Sejm of Poland invited the Seim of Lithuania to Lublin, to meet to consider re-working the mechanism of governing the two states. This was prompted by both the external threat of the growing kingdoms of Russia and Sweeden, as well as the internal difficulty caused by the growing Execution Movement, the effort of the nobles to further weaken the personal power and wealth of the king and the Catholic church. The resulting Union of Lublin in 1569 created a "personal" union of the King of Poland and the Grand-Duke of Lithuania, a united parliament (the Sejm), and unified policy over certain aspects of the two entities (foreign policy, currency, etc.). However, there were still seperate armies, seperate judiciaries, seperate governments at the local level, and a seperate nobility.
This "commonwealth of two countries" was less than a unified country (contrast the United Kingdom of Great Britain), but more than a feudal relationship or mere personal union of crowns (contrast, e.g., the relationship of Canada and Great Britain, or Scotland and England before 1707). It lasted as a political entity until the final partition of Poland-Lithuania in 1795. Although there were changes made in the famous Constitution of 1791, this attempt at modifying the government of Poland failed to have any true practical effect, and indeed the Constitution itself was repudiated by the 1793 Sejm.
It is therefor technically incorrect to call Poland-Lithuania a single country during the period of 1569 to 1795. However, there is simply no accurate way to properly model the actuality of the Commonwealth/Republic of Poland and Lithuania within EU2's rules. A vassalization is grossly inaccurate. Therefor, the best modeling within the game's rules is to consider Poland-Lithuania unified for the purpose of gameplay.
What you need is loyal vassals that actually are more usefull than an obstacle. But that will not happen in EUII. CK actually has a "usefull vassal" model that works it also has a system of vassal loyalty. What is needed is a distinction of vassals by choice (lithuania or norway) and vassals by coersion (wallachia or milan)
There also needs to be a way to incorporate a stronger adherence to "treaty" than EU2 has. The "unification" of the Polish and Lithuanian crowns within one dynasty can't even be replicated, because there isn't a true "treaty" status, nor any imperative to remain adherent to one.Viking said:
Maybe more like modern European Union, than USA. And Commonwealt wasn't only 2 countries! The Crown (Poladn + Ukraine), and Lithuania were most important parts of Commonwealt and only they have had independent armies. But Commonwealth consist also "kingdom Prussia" and Inflants - autonomical lands. Kourland, Ducal Prussia, Moldavia, part of Silesia have been Commonwealth wassals, but even they was sometimes threated as part of one political identity.
It's a pity, in EU2 events Polands inherit Lithuania, but should like Spain, created a new country, with new tag.
It's a pity, in EU2 events Polands inherit Lithuania, but should like Spain, created a new country, with new tag.