Poland is pretty tough...

[incognitus]

So, I play Turkey at the moment. Raised threat on SU and aligned to Axis, got my neutrality to zero in late 1936(ish).

I then conquered other countries in following order:
Albania
Greece
Yugoslavia
Austria
Czechoslovakia
Hungary
Bulgaria
Romania
Portugal
South Africa
Liberia
Ireland
Norway
Denmark
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania

and then, as I had borders with Poland in the North and in the South, I decided to go for them before the Germans do. It is March '38 now and I have following troops lined up along the borders (this is all the troops I have, save some Militia on whack-a-mole-duty):
North East tip of Poland: 3 divisions with 3x Inf / AC
Lithuanian border to Grodno: 2 divisions with 4x Inf, 1 division with 3x Inf / AC
Border near Krakow: 2 divisions with 4x Mtn, 2 divisions with 4x Inf, 1 division with 2x Cav
Border near Lodz: 4 divisions with 3x Inf / Art, 1 division with 2x Cav
South East tip of Poland: 2 divisions with 3x Inf / Art, 1 division with 2x Cav

If attempted taking Poland twice now and they kicked the living crap out of me every time. Is it simply a matter of too little troops on my part or am I making a mistake in troop composition or strategy? In my first attempt I didn't have the North East army and used it to attack Danzig instead, but that resultet in Latvia being flooded by Polish troops and my troops in Grodno being cut off from supplies...

It looked so easy when Germany did it in 18 days... but I guess they had tanks. I don't... though the first batch of L Arm will be ready in July or so.

 

[Krilnik]

Polish army is actually really good, probably the strongest among European minors. But I'm frankly surprised that you managed to defeat Hungary and Romania and you can't defeat Poland. Always thought of Poland to be stronger then them, but not that much stronger.

 

[incognitus]

Hungary and Romania were a cake walk - they have conveniently located VPs. Poland on the other hand cannot be conquered without taking Warsaw. Which basically means one had to utterly crush them before winning the war. I was doing quite alright on the northern front, but in the south there isn't a hope. I can't even hold Lodz and Krakow, never mind going for Warsaw.

Do you think my army is big enough?

 

[Less]

Poland in 1936 starts with 41 divisions. By comparison Germany starts with 42 while France and Italy only have around 30 each in Europe. An uphill climb, but it should be possible. I wouldn't try going for multiple fronts, take it all from the south. Poland's starting manpower is hilariously low so they can't have built too much more.

Poland is definitely a semi-heavyweight. In 1938 they'll probably still have a stronger land army than Italy and every other minor barring Nat China. If it weren't for the AI's inability to add AT brigades to their 100% infantry starting army I'd bet that AI Germany would struggle a lot more against them.

 

[_karl_]

Romania is a joke: that's a big country, with an important army, but if you attack them from the South (which I guess you did) you have two majors VP one close to the other and just one province away from the border.
Hungary was a bit tough for my Spain, though. I attacked it in 1938 with an army which was probably slightly smaller than yours (and a bit late in the doctrines).
Then, once Germany attacked Poland the support of some part of the Hungarian army was enough to slow down the German advance close to a stop, while just before that Poland was getting blitzed as usually. So my feeling was that Poland was not that strong.

 

[KevinG]

You have more than enough troops to beat AI Poland. Lots of players can annex them in 1-2 weeks with just 25 inf/inf/art/at divs as Germany. In general a human should be able to beat the AI easily when outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 as long as techs and and everything else are equal or better. It's mostly a matter of micro.

 

[WSnova]

Poland starts tied with Germany in number of brigades.

At the start date the strongest armies in the world are:

USSR(415 brigades)
Japan(172 brigades)
France(133 brigades)
Poland and Germany (130 brigades)
Italy (112 brigades)
Nationalist China(110 brigades)
ENG(103 brigades)
USA(102 brigades)


Both CZE and ROM start with 76ish brigades and it I think they are amongst the bigger armies between majors. Poland is pretty strong, but is limited by its manpower so it won´t expand its army too much (but thats the case for lots of minors too) but its definitively the bigger minor. Only thing that stops me from considering it an honorary major like nationalist China is that Nationalist China has tons of cores that will boost its power a lot.

Its doable but don´t be fooled, jsut because Germany steamrolls it doesn´t mean they are weak.

 

[KevinG]

They are weak though, it shouldnt take more than an army of 100 brigades to stomp them. The AI wont have more than 170ish brigades by the time war breaks out.

 

[Kovax]

I can take on either YUG or ROM in late 1936 with HUN's modest 14 divisions, but trying to attack Poland isn't something I'd even begin to attempt. With Turkey, you're looking at the prospect of being out-numbered, out-teched, and at the limits of your logistical reach.

Historically, in the mid '30s, Poland had made preliminary overtures about a combined pre-emptive attack on Germany to remove Hitler, but couldn't get the support of France or the UK. You're looking at an army that was seriously contemplating a VOLUNTARY war with GER only a couple of years earlier, not a minor backwater country with a minimal army getting overrun.

 

[_karl_]

However, the poles have always had some delusion of grandeur

 

[incognitus]

I remember, in my previous Portugal game I pretty much destroyed Poland with ease by just landing troops in Danzig and fighting my way to Warsaw and ultimately taking Grodno. I think Lodz and Krakow are not necessary then. In that Portugal game I had far, far less troops, too. Maybe I should just let then invade the baltics and romania as much as they like and focus on their VPs....

 

[Von Faulkenstein]

Assuming you're facing, at the very least, 41 divisions then the issue simply boils down to lack of numerical parity, which is understandable given Turkey's low starting manpower. Not a lot you can do about that. Ultimately what would taking Poland really get you, besides a bit more IC and territory, both of which you already have a ton? You're stretched seriously thin now and you're more likely to be a liability than a help should you get involved in Barbarossa.

Historically, in the mid '30s, Poland had made preliminary overtures about a combined pre-emptive attack on Germany to remove Hitler, but couldn't get the support of France or the UK. You're looking at an army that was seriously contemplating a VOLUNTARY war with GER only a couple of years earlier, not a minor backwater country with a minimal army getting overrun.

That's fascinating, I did not know that. Probably would've succeeded too, if the French and British had been up for the job. Hard to see a German victory coming out of that considering the French tank and air superiority at the time as well as the 300,000 British troops already deployed on the continent.

 

[incognitus]

I made it! What did the job was following Less's advice and reducing the number of fronts. Instead of the south I decided for the northern front, which meant that I had to march all my troops at the south border through Poland and into conquered Lithuania. Poland had offered me transit rights several times, so that was easy enough. Because that long march would take a while, I shipped my northern divisions to the Caribbean in the meantime and conquered Cuba, Haiti and Dom Rep followed by Ecuador (as far as I can see those are the only American countries not guaranteed by the Yanks). The US declared war on me, but as they had just joined the Allies, I could make Peace with the UK within the same hour. *phew*

When my troops were in position, I cancelled the transit rights, waited a week and declared war on Poland. The only addition to my troops listed above was one division of 4x Marines that I kept as a reserve together with one 3xInf / AC division. Two more 3xInf / AC divisions were still in Ecuador at the time. My plan was to let the Polish troops conquer as much of Austria/Czechoslovakia/Hungary/Romania as they want and just focus on their VPs in Grodno, Warsaw, Lodz and Danzig. Two divisions occupied the Polish troops in the far northeast of their territory and steadily moved the Turkish-Polish border south while three more divisions attacked Grodno and then marched on Warsaw, conquering Brest Litewsk on the way. As soon as Lodz and Warsaw where pretty much secured I launched an amphibious assault on Danzig. This time everything seemed so much easier. I only lost three battles in the entire war, one attack on Brest Litewsk, one field attack and once a sole cavalry division was attacked and had to retreat. I checked the save game afterwards, I started (and finished) the war with 92 brigades, the Poles had 156 brigades. That felt really rewarding

Now it's July 30th 1938, I have 105 brigades (including my first L Arms, yay!) and I'm looking for my next target. Persia, Saudi Arabia, Siam, Australia, New Zealand seem to be the easiest to achieve. In Europe I could attack Italy, who have not yet joined the Axis, or Spain... Republican Spain, btw, Franco lost the civil war...

Do you think I can take on Mussolini or is Italy completely out of my league?

 

[KevinG]

Italy is easier than Poland since its AI scatters its troops across north africa/ethiopia.

 

[incognitus]

Italy is easier than Poland since its AI scatters its troops across north africa/ethiopia.

Nice! They I'll gut them first and hope Spain doesn't do something stupid like joining the Allies... I hate the time pressure this game puts on you...

 

[incognitus]

Phew... had to reload in order to attack Italy before they joined the Axis, but that meant that I didn't have time to get all my troops in position. A few weeks into the war they joint Axis and was a major pain in the ass that their troops could retreat into Germany and I couldn't pursue. It worked out anyway, after about 5 months I received the message of their surrender! Yay! I love those fast divisions with LArm and Mot and TD and ACs... will use them more for sure!

Now I've just noticed that after Italy's surrender they only gave me the boot and Sicily, but kept Sardinia, North Africa and Ethiopia... how come? Should I have added more war goals earlier on? Why did this happen? If they still have their navy, there isn't a hope I'm going to get to Africa...

 

[incognitus]

Sorry for pestering... but can someone just tell me quick if it is normal that after the Italian surrender I only get the boot and Sicily, but not Sardinia, the Islands in the Aegean and Libya?

 

[ScanC]

If you declare war with conquer as wargoal, you conquer all. Thus, it seems you used some other wargoal here.

 

[incognitus]

Okay, thank you. I could swear I did. And I did get the message "Turkey enforced Conquer on Italy" as well... I just hope I get a chance to take the remaining territories from the Govt in Exile...

 

[21oliver]

Hungary and Romania were a cake walk - they have conveniently located VPs. Poland on the other hand cannot be conquered without taking Warsaw.

Bingo!