Poland: Ideas, Cores, and Possible Alt-History

[panther-anthro]

Current History:Poland began to form into a recognizable unitary and territorial entity around the middle of the tenth century under the Piast dynasty. Poland's first historically documented ruler, Mieszko I, was baptized in 966, adopting Catholic Christianity as the nation's new official religion, to which the bulk of the population converted in the course of the next centuries. In the twelfth century, Poland fragmented into several smaller states, which were later ravaged by the Mongol armies of the Golden Horde in 1241, 1259 and 1287. In 1320, Wladyslaw I became the King of a reunified Poland, but the independence was to be short-lived. The sudden rise of Lithuania under Jurgis saw Poland conquered once more by armies coming out of the east. The Lithuanian Crusades of the 1370s and the subsequent Treaty of Lazdijai saw Poland liberated at the insistence of the Emperor, but with territorial concessions to Halych-Volhynia and under the vassalage of Hungary.

Now, there's several problems with this really. Mainly, it makes no mention of what happened to Silesia/Kustrin/Hinterpommern.

Danzig is actually mentioned under Danzig, but the only mention it makes is that it was created as an Imperially protected state, because of it's value, and the Emperors wish to not have it incorporated into the Teutonic Order, or Poland. This is fine, and realistically plausible.

Initial Cores for Poland: All of current, + Danzig

Now, there are actually several routes that Poland could follow here, as it's literally a blank slate with no events.

Reclamation Poland: This will likely bring Poland into conflict with the Emperor, but going this route means that Poland would seek to re-subjugate it's lost territories that are under German or independent control.

The obvious provinces that are in this vein of interests are:Galizien, Podlasia, Mazovia, Danzig, Kustrin, Hinterpommern, Silesia.

Taking over these territories would result in their conversion to Polish Culture, and obviously a core gained. The only province that should be exempt from not starting with a core here is: Danzig. Mainly, Poland would be dead-set on getting this one back, and this should be the core given to start this 'route' for Poland.

Polish conquests in the Teutonic Order: Now this focuses on retaking territories that not only belonged to Poland, but also to Lithuania. This mainly seeks to subjugate the 'Lithuanians' *Revenge*, and take back Mazovia/Galizien/Podlasia. This route does not bring you into conflict with the Emperor, or any German states, but it does bring you into conflict with the Teutonic Order, and Halch *obviously*

So these, are the two routes, that I think could be possible conquest wise, that are plausible at start.

Starting Story Message: Wladyslaw II the great grandson of Wladyslaw the I has taken control of a weak Poland, with losses to Halch-Volynia, and the loss of territory from the Lithuanians in recent years, his country is weak. Poland was once a strong glorious nation, and it looked as if it was going to have a bright future, but recent events seemed to have all, but snuffed out this future. The Polish people are under many rules, and the injustices done to them under the rule of others has been most harsh, they cry for freedom, will this call go unanswered?


Event Route Choice: Although, Poland may be in a weak state, it was at a cross-roads, would it defy the German states, and seek to regain it's lost territory that lies in german hands? Or would it go against the Teutonic Order, take the lands of Lithuanians, and free the poles of Mazovia? For the young King Wladyslaw there is a choice to be made.

Option A:Let us take back our lands from the Germans!

Option B: Let us take back our lands from the Teutonic Order!

Option C: Poland must not come into conflict with the other kingdoms!


The only option, I haven't mentioned what the obvious course of events would be is the event chain for Option C. *Which should be the most likely for an AI poland, so I guess it'd be option A* Which just raises your relations with the German states, Bavaria, and Hungary.

 

[panther-anthro]

I wrote this event if you want to use it Matty?

event = {
id = 514000
random = no
country = POL
name = "A Shattered Kingdom"
desc = "Wladyslaw II the great grandson of Wladyslaw the I has taken control of a weak Poland, with losses to Halch-Volynia, and the loss of territory from the Lithuanians in recent years, his country is weak. Poland was once a strong glorious nation, and it looked as if it was going to have a bright future, but recent events seemed to have all, but snuffed out this future. The Polish people are under many rules, and the injustices done to them under the rule of others has been most harsh, they cry for freedom, will this call go unanswered?"

date = { day = 2 month = january year = 1419 }

action_a = {
name = "Poland will be strong once again!"
command = { type = diplomats value = 1 }

event = {
id = 514001
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Question of Polish Destiny?"
desc = "Although, Poland may be in a weak state, it was at a cross-roads, would it defy the German states, and seek to regain it's lost territory that lies in german hands? Or would it go against the Teutonic Order, take the lands of Lithuanians, and free the poles of Mazovia? For the young King Wladyslaw there is a choice to be made."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1423 }
offset = 200
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1427 }

action_a = {
name = "We crusade to retake our land from the Teutonic Order!"
command = { type = addcore which = 288 } # Lithuania
command = { type = addcore which = 290 } # Prussia
command = { type = addcore which = 301 } # Danzig
}
action_b = {
name = "We crusade to retake our land from the Germans!"
command = { type = addcore which = 301 } # Danzig
command = { type = addcore which = 302 } # Hinterpommern
command = { type = addcore which = 314 } # Silesia
command = { type = addcore which = 313 } # Kustrin

Note: I decided against an option C, as Poland should come into conflict with at least one nation. I'll make culture conversion events soon. Have to do some minor stuff IRL tomorrow, but I should have a lot more done by then.

Note 2: Silesia should be Polish Culture, not German. Look up it's history prior to 1419. Most of it's history it's part of Poland.

 

[LordInsane]

Note 2: Silesia should be Polish Culture, not German. Look up it's history prior to 1419. Most of it's history it's part of Poland.

One could note that what happened in OTL prior to 1419 needn't necessarily affect things, as the PODs happened, in many cases, quite a bit before that. Of course, it still wouldn't be that many years, probably, so you could have a point.

 

[MattyG]

One could note that what happened in OTL prior to 1419 needn't necessarily affect things, as the PODs happened, in many cases, quite a bit before that. Of course, it still wouldn't be that many years, probably, so you could have a point.

Not that I want to argue this point, but I do want everyone to remember what 'culture' represents in EU2.

It does not represent the common people.

It represents the ruling elites, from, say, town elders upwards, those people who have the authority, who make decisions. Common people follow.

(Common people matter to a provinces religion to some extent, but not its culture.)

 

[panther-anthro]

Silesia is not German, is all I'm saying. Even in this timeline, it shouldn't be German, at least not until a German/Bohemia nation takes it over. If Poland gets to it, it should stay Polish. I'm merely suggesting it starts Polish.

 

[LordInsane]

Silesia is not German, is all I'm saying. Even in this timeline, it shouldn't be German, at least not until a German/Bohemia nation takes it over. If Poland gets to it, it should stay Polish. I'm merely suggesting it starts Polish.

Or if a German dynasty takes over, presumably (which could make a switch sometime after 1617 as it is now: Frederick William sounds more German then Polish, right?).

 

[panther-anthro]

That's true. I'm just saying that it starts Polish, it's ruling class was, and if it's independent state *kinda* it should stay that way.

 

[MattyG]

That's true. I'm just saying that it starts Polish, it's ruling class was, and if it's independent state *kinda* it should stay that way.

But that's what I had always assumed about Silesia, that it was a german-noble led state in the Aberration/Interregnum world.

 

[panther-anthro]

Why would that have changed? I don't see anything that assumes germans took it over Matty. Do you...? I assume it'd be an independant polish/german state. The real idea, would be making it accept germans, and poles. Keep it's culture Polish for a while, then convert it over to German at some later point.

Oh, an interesting idea, Since Silesia is close to the 'Rising Empire of Saxony' It could become German by Royal marriage to the Duchy of Saxony, and become yet another conflict point between Saxony, and the Poles.

 

[MattyG]

Why would that have changed? I don't see anything that assumes germans took it over Matty. Do you...? I assume it'd be an independant polish/german state. The real idea, would be making it accept germans, and poles. Keep it's culture Polish for a while, then convert it over to German at some later point.

Oh, an interesting idea, Since Silesia is close to the 'Rising Empire of Saxony' It could become German by Royal marriage to the Duchy of Saxony, and become yet another conflict point between Saxony, and the Poles.

Aberration has it as German culture group.

I never changed this and never paid any attention to this country.

It's one of many missing pieces that needs to be explored.

Perhaps ask The Archduke what he was thinking or else just change it to whatever you think is more appropriate. You have my blessing.

 

[panther-anthro]

I think it should end up being merged into one of three countries by event. Bohemia/Saxony/Poland. I'll ask Arch what he was thinking of doing with it I guess.

 

[panther-anthro]

event = {
id = 514002
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 313 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish Nobles are reinstated in Kustrin"
desc = "The Polish Kingdom has taken Kustrin back into it's holdings, and after many years the German nobles, have been replaced with Polish ones. Firmly establishg the Polish as the ruling class of Kustrin once again."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "It is now part of our Heritage again"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 313 value = Polish }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 313 value = -2 } #Gracious peasants who are happy to be reunited with their brothers.
}
}
event = {
id = 514003
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 302 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish Nobles are reinstated in Hinterpommern"
desc = "The Polish Kingdom has taken Hinterpommern back into it's holdings, and after many years the German nobles, have been replaced with Polish ones. Firmly establishg the Polish as the ruling class of Hinterpommern once again."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "It is now part of our Heritage again"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 302 value = Polish }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 302 value = -2 } #Gracious peasants who are happy to be reunited with their brothers.
}
}
event = {
id = 514004
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 314 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish Nobles are reinstated in Silesia"
desc = "The Polish Kingdom has taken Silesia back into it's holdings, and after many years the German nobles, have been replaced with Polish ones. Firmly establishg the Polish as the ruling class of Silesia once again."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "It is now part of our Heritage again"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 314 value = Polish }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 314 value = -2 } #Gracious peasants who are happy to be reunited with their brothers.
}
}
event = {
id = 514005
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 290 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish Nobles are reinstated in Prussia"
desc = "The Polish Kingdom has taken Prussia back into it's holdings, and after many years the German nobles, have been replaced with Polish ones. Firmly establishg the Polish as the ruling class of Prussia once again."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "It is now part of our Heritage again"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 290 value = Polish }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 290 value = -2 } #Gracious peasants who are happy to be reunited with their brothers.
}
}
event = {
id = 514006
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 288 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish have conquered Lithuania"
desc = "The people of Lithuania have suffered greatly under the Teutonic Order, they look at the conquerors from Poland as their saviours from a time of great darkness. Within a relatively short time, Lithuanians regard themselves as Polish Citizens."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "They are now part of our Kingdom"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 288 value = Polish }
}
event = {
id = 514007
random = no
country = POL
trigger = {
owned = { province = 290 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
name = "The Polish Nobles are reinstated in Danzig"
desc = "The Polish Kingdom has taken Danzig back into it's holdings, and after many years the German nobles, have been replaced with Polish ones. Firmly establishg the Polish as the ruling class of Danzig once again."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2000
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "It is now part of our Heritage again"
command = { type = provinceculture which = 301 value = Polish }
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 301 value = -2 } #Gracious peasants who are happy to be reunited with their brothers.
}
}

Here's my complete list of Polish province conversion events.

 

[Dell19]

I quite like the idea of Silesia being a country with a mixture of cultures from it's three neighbours with all of them wanting to gain the whole province.

Could be quite interesting to build a series of events around Silesia where Poland have the option to try and conquer Silesia which then triggers an event for Bohemia with three options:
-Protect Silesia -> War with Poland
- invade Silesia -> whoever gets there first gets the province
- do nothing

Saxony then also has an event. If Bohemia choose option c then Saxony get a similar event, otherwise they get an event where they can choose to side with Bohemia or Poland or to declare war on both.

Ideally Silesia would get their own events to get more troops either from Saxony or Bohemia choosing to support them or from someone like the Teutonic Order or Hungary who wishes them to stay independant but not get involved in the war.

If someone conquers Silesia (quite likely) then they would have an event where they can purge the province and convert it to their culture, causing the other nationalities to flee to the neighbouring countries who then potentially get cores on Silesia but they can lose these cores at a later date.

If there is no clear winner of the war(s) then the Pope could get involved and grant independance back to Silesia.

 

[panther-anthro]

Sounds cool to me, glad to see someone else getting involved in my Silesia debate. I'm glad someone else liked the 'mixed culture' idea.

 

[Dell19]

I think the event sequence from above could go something like this for the first part:

Poland:
We cannot risk a war with the Teutonic Order however much of Silesia still remains Polish culture and is surely an easier aquisition.
a - War (most likely)*
b - No Danzig first (just a slight worsening of relations with TO)

Bohemia:
Poland has declared war on Silesia! Many people believe we cannot let Poland expand and perhaps become a major power in the region and that we should protect our claim on the region:
a - Declare war on Poland to protect Silesia (most likely)
b - Try and capture Silesia first
c - Just send aid

Saxony:
(Bohemia choose option c)
Poland has declared war on Silesia, should we try and protect our neighbour?
a - Declare war on Poland to protect Silesia (most likely)
b - Try and capture Silesia first
c - Just send aid

Saxony:
(Bohemia chooses a or b)
Bohemia have declared war against Poland, we should exploit this situation but who should we support?
a - Poland
b - Bohemia



If Saxony or Bohemia end up controlling Silesia after choosing to protect them then they have an event to re instate the country.

Teutonic Order:
We do not wish to go to war with Poland over Silesia as we have other concerns in the east however we do not want to see them grow. Should we send aid?
a - send aid (most likely)
b - No (loss of prestige

*It might be necessary to trigger an event that removes any other major nations like Hungary from alliances with Saxony, Bohemia or Poland

 

[panther-anthro]

IN reality though, it seems like Saxony should despise Poland for trying to question it's rightful claim to the rule of Brandenburg. It should check if the Poles own any territory in Brandenburg, if they do the last one for Saxony, should have no option for helping Poland, and have an option to attack Poland to take advantage of the situation to retake land in Brandenburg's former territory.


I'm going to go test out my new Polish events.

Event works.

 

[Dell19]

The end of the war:

Same event for either nation who conquered Silesia:
(5 years after original war and only if the conquering country still has their cores)
We have conquered Silesia however there is little support for our rule from the majority of the population, should we force our influence over the province?
a - yes (lots of people leave but culture switches) (slighty more likely)
b - No (rebellion in Silesia and increase in revolt risk)

The other two nations can then choose to side against the owner of Silesia (most likely)

Same event for either nation who conquered Silesia:
(5 years after original war and only if the conquering country has lost a core)
We have conquered Silesia but have lost the war and have been forced to relinquish control of Silesia
a - Silesia independance but as a vassal.




If war breaks out again.

Once each country is back at peace, if they are over a particular size the pope recognises them as the rightful owners of Silesia and it is seen as the first step towards being granted a kingdom.

If the owner of Silesia is still too weak the Pope forces Silesia to be liberated which all three nations must accept as they will all have a war devistation event which removes their core on Silesia and effectively ends the war.



Possibly there should be some events for Silesia to somehow win the war although this is only likely to happen if under player control. Perhaps an option to take the mantle of one of the three neighbours.

 

[panther-anthro]

Silesia has no claim to any title, so it can't win the war. It's ment to die. I get that you want it to matter more, but it hasn't really ever mattered all that much in history.. Nice ideas though, I'll work on it. But Poland/Saxony normal events get priority.

 

[MattyG]

Silesia has no claim to any title, so it can't win the war. It's ment to die. I get that you want it to matter more, but it hasn't really ever mattered all that much in history.. Nice ideas though, I'll work on it. But Poland/Saxony normal events get priority.

Remember that these events always need to have an 'out' for the player. If I want to play Silesia I have to have the option to stay in the game, not be automatically inherited.

 

[panther-anthro]

Remember that these events always need to have an 'out' for the player. If I want to play Silesia I have to have the option to stay in the game, not be automatically inherited.

Obviously Matty, but I ment if it's AI. Also, I'm going to make events for a possible territory gain for Silesia, by Imperial grant. Essentially, if Silesia is alive, it could gain Brandenburg's electoral vote, and inherit it's realms, if Bavaria wins the war that is, just an idea. But, it's not all that important yet...