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I noticed this thing long ago that almost all of France divisions are 1918 at begining of 1939 scenario .Ok said i there were badly equipped compared to German.But poland infrantry divisions are almost all in inf 36.Were Poles so better equipped than frenchs?Why is that?
 

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The above is certainly true. However, it is arguable that the Polish military was better armed and equiped in some ways, than the French military just prior to World War II. I don't happen to have any references handy, but i've seen that said before.
Still, noone was actually ready (in terms of training, for the most part) for Germany when World War II opened up. You have to remember that it's only been ~20 years since WWI, which caused over 37 million casualties and absolutely devistated Europe. People tend to lay blame for WWII on appeasement policies, and their certainly correct to an extent. however, with the nightmares of WWI still fresh in everyones memory, you can hardly blame sane people for attempting appeasement and intentionally cripling their military in various ways.
 

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And France, more than any other nation (well, perhaps Germany), was still very influenced by WWI. Escpecially the army. The morale in the French army wasn't what one would catagorise as high. Poland, on the other hand, was a young country, eager to defend it's hard won independance.
 

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The French also had a lot of reserve divisions that were largely composed of older WW1 veterans who were less fit and were led by WW1 officers who used WWI thinking as did much of the French high command. Those class B div also had older equipment including obsolete 25mm AT guns and 75 arty instead of 105s.
 

ohms_law

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to add to that (feel free to correct me if I'm obviously off base here), I remember reading that absolutely no attempt was ever made to chance command or upgrade any of those units either. Throughout late '39 (from sept on, obviously) through early '40 the general feeling was something like "trust the Maginot Line". I remember reading a famous world war II text a couple of years ago that included some first hand accounts about the phoney war period. Can't remember the name of the name of the book now, unfortunately.
 

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Mork said:
And France, more than any other nation (well, perhaps Germany), was still very influenced by WWI. Escpecially the army. The morale in the French army wasn't what one would catagorise as high. Poland, on the other hand, was a young country, eager to defend it's hard won independance.

Still, although being eager to fight, the Polish army was obselete. The country's airforce was basically non-excistance, it relied on outdated cavalry( the polish commanders way of thinking couldnt be better revealed than the Polish cavalry attack on German tanks), and did'nt have the airforce or anti-air to deal with the Luftwaffe.

The French, on the other hand, had a modern army in 39\40. It had one of the world's strongest armoured force (aprox. 4000 tanks in total), only succeded by the Red Army. The french doctrines werent as good as the German's though.
 

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Castro said:
I thought that was a myth, cavalry probably fought against tanks at some point, but I can't think of any reason why any commander would engage a cavalry attack against tanks.

I've read "World War 2" by Janusz Piekalkiewicz ( a Polish writer who also fought during the riot in Warsaw). In the book he says that the poish cavalry was suprised by German tanks, but did engage the enemy, which ended in a cruel massacre
 

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Donkey Kong said:
I've read "World War 2" by Janusz Piekalkiewicz ( a Polish writer who also fought during the riot in Warsaw). In the book he says that the poish cavalry was suprised by German tanks, but did engage the enemy, which ended in a cruel massacre

Not again this crap! People, your view of cavalry goes back to Napoleonic period. Cavalry in 1939, also Polish cavalry, was not a bunch of mavericks, charging with sabres against tanks. Horses were just a substitute of more modern means of mobility - trucks, which Poland and many countries lacked (in sufficient numbers). Polish cavalry divisions in 1939 were equipped i.e. in anti-tank rifles and other "heavier" weapons; they used horses as a way to move quicker, but once in a battle, fought on foot. Polish cavalrymen charging tanks is a complete bullshit, shown first in an Italian propaganda movie from 1939 (of course, it was not a documentary). There were a few cases of cavalry charges in Defensive War of 1939, but against some "soft" German targets like moving colums of infantry or reconaissance squads - and they were successful.

If you've read Polish cavalry "did engage the enemy", it doesn't mean they charged heads on with sabres shining in the sun, for God's sake.
 

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kristoff said:
... Horses were just a substitute of more modern means of mobility - trucks, which Poland and many countries lacked (in sufficient numbers). Polish cavalry divisions in 1939 were equipped i.e. in anti-tank rifles and other "heavier" weapons; they used horses as a way to move quicker, but once in a battle, fought on foot...

In English, the term for Infantry that use Horses for battlefield mobility (but fight on foot) is 'Dragoons'.
 

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The Propaganda about the Cavalry is simple....

What does one think, Tanks are perpetual movement machines? The supply train has to catch up.... it was these that the Cavalry primarily attacked. And while there may be an instance or two of Cavalry vs Tank Combat, it wasnt men with sabres and Lances (as mentioned above) but rather mounted infantry...

However it just sounds better if your enemy was incompetent and you have a modern, Terrifying military Machine.....

Also remember the Germans even used a cavalry division coming from Prussia during the Polish Invasion.

Read Blitzkrieg Myth by John Mosier, and while you may disagree with all the thesis he makes, it does at least make you think about it in a new light.

and
Please I am not trying to trump the my source is better than yours, I am simply sharing that I found the book very informative and it made me take another look at most of the other works out there...

Sorry for the rant....
 

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john heidle said:
The French also had a lot of reserve divisions that were largely composed of older WW1 veterans who were less fit and were led by WW1 officers who used WWI thinking as did much of the French high command. Those class B div also had older equipment including obsolete 25mm AT guns and 75 arty instead of 105s.

Even 25mm AT was capable of nailing 80% of German panzers. It could penetrate 40mm of armor, Panzers had 30mm max. They were not used well enough, just like the mitrailleuse in 1870.
 

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I do remember reading that atleast american inteligence prewar held the view that the polish army was one of the strongest in europe...
 

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Trin Tragula said:
I do remember reading that atleast american inteligence prewar held the view that the polish army was one of the strongest in europe...

Hi,

in many ways it was... Only the Germans were so much stronger. The main Polish weakness was in air, not because it was totally neglected as most people think, but because several very innovative engine/airframe development projects failed and time was irretrievably lost.
The industrial resources weren`t always too well managed either, first and foremost the principle of continuous production wasn`t adhered to.

Regards, Oldtimer
 

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i don't want to get too off track, but can anyone explain why the french never fortified the belgian border?
 

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Re Maginot Line etc, my recall is that as early as the early 1930s, British and French strategists had predicted another German invasion through the Low Countries. It was thought unlikely that this would come through the Ardennes, as the prediction was that the Germans would go for speed over strength (as they did) and the forest would slow them down.

IIRC, the Maginot Line wasn't extended partly for economic reasons and partly for political ones (ie abandoning Belgium). It was held that joint British and French forces should be able to hold off the Germans across the very limited Belgian frontier without resorting to huge extra defences.

Again, IIRC, the Germans changed their original invasion plans after the Allies captured a crashed German plane with the plans onboard, and invaded further south than they had originally planned, outflanking the French and British (Dunkirk). The French and British were hampered to a great degree by the destruction of a large part of the French Armee de l'Air on the ground, lack of co-ordination both between themselves and internally in each army and the fact that the French had committed every single unit to the battle; when the German panzer assault slowed down after the initial hit, there were no French reserves to counter-attack and their best units had already been encircled and lost...

The rest is, as they say, history.
 

blue emu

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Communazi said:
i don't want to get too off track, but can anyone explain why the french never fortified the belgian border?

A few reasons:

1) Diplomacy... to set up a fortified line seperating France from Belgium would be a clear statement that the French intended to let Belgium fall without attempting to save them... throwing them to the Nazi wolves, in effect. With such a clear indication of French intentions (or non-intentions...) why shouldn't Belgium save itself, by making a deal (or even an alliance) with Germany?

2) Strategy... the French plan (Plan D) in the event of an attack by Germany on Belgium was to hold the Maginot line with static forces, and rush their most modern and mobile forces into central Belgium... to the line of the Dyle river. Given that plan... any defensive line built along the Franco-Belgian border would either be abandoned right at the start of the war, or be just a useless drain on their field forces.

3) Cost... the Maginot Line, covering just two HOI provinces, cost 3 Billion Francs. How much would it have cost to extend it by another EIGHT provinces... through areas that could no longer count on the protection of an unfordable river?