Poland and the Teutonic order.

[Shushen]

After reading the thread about the potential of Poland I tried starting my own game, but i got a problem with the mission to subjugate the teutons. (apart from Hungary that seems to hate my guts no matter what i do and allying with the teutons no matter what i do every game)

The mechanics for forcing vassalization seem bugged in this mission as the warscore cost of vassalization is at 108% which i cant get no matter what i do. And after the war if i take one province to reduce the cost of vassalization in the next war i loose the subjugation casus belli. Not to mention that while i wait for the truce to fade and any coalitions that spring up to fade someone else will attack the weakened teutons and steal my rightfull tracts of land.

Is there any way of getting the mission done in one war? If i wait to long to start fighting someone else always seem to go for the teutons instead of my and i need a few of the teutonic provinces for the commonwealt decisions. I just like to get that done without fighting and pissing off too many people.

 

[NewbieOne]

That's a long-standing concept, i.e. certain requests like vassalisation having a >100% war score requirement. Perhaps it was not tweaked for the subjugation CB. Sorry to hear about your problem.

 

[MiniaAr]

Actually you don't lose the CB after the war, but 10 years after taking the mission. The optimal strategy in my view is thus to claim Danzig and/or Chelmo and take those provinces in a first war. Use the conquest CB and don't take the mission yet. If you can, take one province of the Livonian order. When you are ready to do the second war, take the mission and use the subjugation CB. You will be able to vassalise the Teutonic order.

Now, you can get even more out of this. In the second war, instead of vassalising TEU immediatly, vassalise his allies instead. You will get the 50% discount for them as well, provided you occupy their capital. That way, I was able to vassalise both Pommerania and the Livonian Order. They have to be in a coalition against you however, as you will sign the peace with the Teutonic order asking for their vassalisation, and they can't refuse. Then, you should still have time after the truce expire (remember that the CB lasts for 10 years) to attack the Teutonic Order again, and finally vassalise them. That's the gamey way to do it.

 

[roman566]

That's weird, I have played Poland in 1.1.3 and that mission allowed me to vasalize the TO in one war. The cost was 99% from what I remember. Maybe a bug? I don't remember any changes in provinces values or this CB being mentioned.

 

[MiniaAr]

That's weird, I have played Poland in 1.1.3 and that mission allowed me to vasalize the TO in one war. The cost was 99% from what I remember. Maybe a bug? I don't remember any changes in provinces values or this CB being mentioned.

Well before 1.2, the warscore cost of provinces could lower with enough time, thereby reducing the total cost for vassalisation of a country if you could occupy it long enough. This is not possible since 1.2 however and the cost of vassalisation is fixed. And the Teutonic Order has just a too high base tax to be vassalisable in one go.

 

[Shushen]

Probably an oversight that slipped through and then they forgot about fixing it for these kind of missions.

I will try the two war approach when i get home, Although i will take danzig and neumark in war one. that should stop any pesky germans from stealing my land while i wait for the truce to fade.

 

[roman566]

Well before 1.2, the warscore cost of provinces could lower with enough time, thereby reducing the total cost for vassalisation of a country if you could occupy it long enough. This is not possible since 1.2 however and the cost of vassalisation is fixed. And the Teutonic Order has just a too high base tax to be vassalisable in one go.

The war score was lowered after province was held by more than 5 years, the cost of vasalization was 99% from the beginning. So it has to be something else.

 

[MiniaAr]

The war score was lowered after province was held by more than 5 years, the cost of vasalization was 99% from the beginning. So it has to be something else.

Maybe Brandenburg already took Neumark? (this would put the cost under 100%)

Also, taking Danzig might not suffice to discourage pesky OPM to try to get a share of the Teutonic Order in between your wars. (Pommerania goes for ostpreussen regularly). It's usually better to guarantee them as soon as the peace is signed.

 

[Shushen]

Well if pommerania wants a piece of ostpreussen they have to walk through my lands and guess who isnt in the mood to allow military access.

 

[Incompetent]

Well if pommerania wants a piece of ostpreussen they have to walk through my lands and guess who isnt in the mood to allow military access.

Don't count on it - Pomerania can into sea.

 

[Shushen]

Well the teutons start the game with 20+ galleys idling in the baltic.

I am more worried about the overextension from the great big Danzig and Neumark provinces that i have to sit on until the teutons are vassals and i can give it back.

300+ admin to core Danzig? Yeah i am not doing that.

 

[Atlanteax]

Well the teutons start the game with 20+ galleys idling in the baltic.

I am more worried about the overextension from the great big Danzig and Neumark provinces that i have to sit on until the teutons are vassals and i can give it back.

300+ admin to core Danzig? Yeah i am not doing that.

Do not core Danzig. Sell it back to the Teutons after you vassalize them in the 2nd war. Basically you'll have to sit on it for 5+ years.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

Yes I use to have Screenshot about this bug. I was going to post a thread about it, but forgot. Yes before you could take TO in one war, but now it's 108%. I just got feed up and tag switched.

 

[trojan1234]

The mechanics for forcing vassalization seem bugged in this mission as the warscore cost of vassalization is at 108% which i cant get no matter what i do. And after the war if i take one province to reduce the cost of vassalization in the next war i loose the subjugation casus belli. Not to mention that while i wait for the truce to fade and any coalitions that spring up to fade someone else will attack the weakened teutons and steal my rightfull tracts of land.

You don't need to vassalize TO in one war. Brandenburg, Pomerania, and Denmark(or Sweden) are usually competing for Danzig and TO lands.
If you took Danzig, refuse MA to Brandenburg/Pomerania to prevent them getting TO lands except Neumark.
Guarantee TO if Denmark/Sweden had a claim on TO lands.

If you concern OEs from Danzig and Neumark, just take Danzig only. Don't bother Brandenburg reconquest Neumark. Let them take their lands. Once you vassalize TO, you can fight Brandenburg and return Neumark to TO with 0 ae while waiting 10 years before annex TO.

 

[Xara]

The one thing I don't see mentioned often is : if you are using a subjugation CB, you can actually vassalize their allies that join the war for 50% cost and 0 AE, *if* they have tagged the "let the leader negotiate for us" option. Depending on who TO allies with and whether or not they do that (I do not know what determines whether or not an AI ally will allow negotiation on their behalf) you might be able to take a TO core + subjugate someone they brought in, then subjugate TO in the next war.

Used this to get multiple vassals for 0 AE in HRE wars before

 

[grisamentum]

As Poland you often get a "save the Polish people in Chelmno" mission first so just do that first in order to conquer Chelmno, then sell Chelmno to Mazovia. You'll always be able to get TO subjugation mission later.

 

[MiniaAr]

The one thing I don't see mentioned often is : if you are using a subjugation CB, you can actually vassalize their allies that join the war for 50% cost and 0 AE, *if* they have tagged the "let the leader negotiate for us" option. Depending on who TO allies with and whether or not they do that (I do not know what determines whether or not an AI ally will allow negotiation on their behalf) you might be able to take a TO core + subjugate someone they brought in, then subjugate TO in the next war.

Used this to get multiple vassals for 0 AE in HRE wars before

I mentionned it! Also, if they are in a coalition (possible to achieve after a first war of conquest), those countries in the coalition cannot "uncheck" the box "let leader negociate for us" meaning you are guaranteed to be able to vassalise them (be sure you control the capital and not your own allies).

As Poland you often get a "save the Polish people in Chelmno" mission first so just do that first in order to conquer Chelmno, then sell Chelmno to Mazovia. You'll always be able to get TO subjugation mission later.

Yes, taking both Chelmo and Danzig in a first conquest war, sitting on Danzig for a few years and giving Chelmo to Mazovia, plus taking Kurland ensured in my game that both Pommerania and the Livonian Order got in a coalition against me and where thus vassalisable once I took the subjugation mission. That's the optimal way to do it AFAIK.

 

[Adimon6]

In my last game TO was allied to Brandenburg (and LO of course), so when I started the conquest, at first I vassalized BRA in separate peace deal, then returned Neumark to them and took Chełmno, which I immediately sold to Mazovia. After 5 years I took subjugation mission and finished them