Poland and Scandinavia went totally crazy
- Thread starter Sabra
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Can confirm that something is awfully buffing Scandinavia to do this,and from what I can see from the screenshots on these forums,I'm not alone.
I doubt there is any "butterfly effect" here at all,they just simply screwed up something which involves giving Sweden some unrealistic advantages over it's neighbors. Instantly this leads to a strong Scandinavia steamrolling down the Russian principalities,and the absence of a strong Russia gives Poland (or Lithuania) an opportunity to eat up whatever Scandinavia leaves behind in their race towards Siberia.
The only way to prove your theory is to show every game that has no-one playing an Eastern European country and having Sweden and Poland steamrolling - which isn't the case, so maybe end your 'they screwed it up' because you've seen 5...10(?) posts about UberSweden out of how many 10's of thousands of games played? If anything the odds are saying that they are underpowered because they're only steam rolling 0.00001% of the time.
Anyone can make a theory based on chosen facts, they mean little until proven.
"The only way to prove me wrong is to do an impossible test, thereby proving me right due to these irrelevant and idiotic constraints which I myself set up"
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I don't think that's particularly fair - they may be somewhat exaggerating the required level of testing to be certain, but it's completely reasonable to point out that this is very much anecdotal, not Data as such. Would be very interested to the see the results if someone had the time and CPU power to burn through 15-20 observe games, with regard to both this and other balance questions raised about the current patch level, but I expect that there are no takers on such an offer. Until that point, we really can't speak for certain about who always does what.
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I understand you like Paradox and their products,as do I,why would I be here otherwise? But there are times when we must simply admit that something went wrong,there is no shame in failing,there is only shame in failing to admit your fall. So please do lay of the the ridiculous math,and take a chill pill
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This may be of interest:
Taking out all of the Western lucky nations probably had something to do with this though.
Taking out all of the Western lucky nations probably had something to do with this though.
Even among the "Sweden/Scandinavia and Poland/Commonwealth" are overpowered posts, that is the first time I've seem they both blob out as far into Siberia. I am reasonably sure the OP example is not really representative.
Furthermore, strong Sweden and Poland doesn't necessarily mean these two countries are overpowered. It could just as easily mean their main competitors are too weak and, thus, they are allowed to blob easier than they should. We have seem many posts about underpowered Russia, after all, so it is hard to tell the problem is this country instead of another. Game balance is not that easy when the situation is that complex.
Furthermore, strong Sweden and Poland doesn't necessarily mean these two countries are overpowered. It could just as easily mean their main competitors are too weak and, thus, they are allowed to blob easier than they should. We have seem many posts about underpowered Russia, after all, so it is hard to tell the problem is this country instead of another. Game balance is not that easy when the situation is that complex.
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The fact is one group of people DO have the data on all of this - Paradox. So to post a picture and say 'something needs fixing because I have this screenshot' is rediculous. The game has literally millions of variables over the course of hundreds of years of game play - quirks will happen every now and then and people will post about them.
France is underpowered and collapses every game since 1.12
There is no manpower left in the game since 1.12
Sweden is overpowered and blobs every game in 1.12
Imperial Authority is impossible to gain since 1.12
All things that've been raised and 'must be fixed' - all things that aren't true.
I am not pro or against Paradox, i'm against these comments/replies that pop up from people who have no idea about code, no idea about data gathering and no idea about common sense (not the dlc) because anyone in their right mind would understand how teeny tiny the pool of data is being displayed on the forums compared to what is actually happening - and the only people that can do anything about it (Paradox) are also the people that collect the most data about it.
So let them gather, collate, interrogate and deliver results that are based on real data, not forum threads.
p.s. my 'butterfly effect' comment still holds true, especially for a game where the AI makes many, many decision based on what is happening in the world, we as a player are a huge unknown that screws with the natural ai and causes it to do, to us, 'odd things' - maybe they both scampered east at the same time because the player is a western powerhouse and 2v1 means Russia can't win, who knows? Oh yes, Paradox.
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I think consensus on Sweden is that they gain quite a lot by Denmark being slightly underdeveloped (Denmark should at opening have a strongly superior navy and a somewhat stronger army) and having a stupid Naval AI that can't figure out how to play stategicly with its navy blocking the straits as need be
I don't really see why this is such a big deal to people. If the Russian Empire could be that big IRL, what's to stop another country from doing it in an alternate history?
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Have a nice evening
Swedish Scandinavia does form quite a bit lately. Something about that new 'historical rivals +50%' addition to their PU hate for Denmark. It's fairly hard for Denmark to keep them around for more than the time it takes to kill the initial rebels.
And yes, Denmark is severely UP compared to prior versions. They have a hard time building either a navy or a fleet to their starting force limit without going broke. So once Sweden is out, they get removed from the map fast.
The one thing about any version of Scandinavia though, is that it's very much a paper tiger. I rarely see it with more than 30-40 regiments.
Muscovy does tend to fail a lot now. I haven't seen 'Russia' in multiple test games. Even though they get beat up, they do tend to do a 'come back' if they aren't attacked by 3 different alliances in succession all the time. I saw a Muscovy that made it into Siberia while losing all of Europe. They just kept colonizing until they got bigger then starting trying to take things back (failures usually though).
Poland on the other hand... seems more like a coin toss if they get run over, form Commonwealth, or do it alone. I actually watched Denmark get a PU over Lithuania within 1 year of 1444 start due to Lithuania's king dying before Poland could PU them.
And yes, Denmark is severely UP compared to prior versions. They have a hard time building either a navy or a fleet to their starting force limit without going broke. So once Sweden is out, they get removed from the map fast.
The one thing about any version of Scandinavia though, is that it's very much a paper tiger. I rarely see it with more than 30-40 regiments.
Muscovy does tend to fail a lot now. I haven't seen 'Russia' in multiple test games. Even though they get beat up, they do tend to do a 'come back' if they aren't attacked by 3 different alliances in succession all the time. I saw a Muscovy that made it into Siberia while losing all of Europe. They just kept colonizing until they got bigger then starting trying to take things back (failures usually though).
Poland on the other hand... seems more like a coin toss if they get run over, form Commonwealth, or do it alone. I actually watched Denmark get a PU over Lithuania within 1 year of 1444 start due to Lithuania's king dying before Poland could PU them.
Oddly enough, I was just playing Japan, so I have had practically no effect on Europe, and its 1650's and Denmark has somehow maintained its PU over Norway and Sweden. Commonwealth also formed and between it and a westernized Kazan they have taken all of what would have been Russia.
Poland AND Sweden (it's blue, it's Sweden) stronk! The table is set for some totally awesome wars between those two, just like the good old days.
the fact that it happens in a very ahistorical manner due to imbalances between the nations and happens in (from what I've seen) the majority of games?