Originally posted by Duma
Well this is all speculation since the only way Poland will recieve latin tech is if the Ottoman's did as well. Plus I highly doubt that Paradox will make the move since Russia will always lag behind Poland in tech. Unlike some people here, MP play is far more important for balance then just propping Poland up with latin tech so you can do some naval research as well.
If the Ottoman, Poland and Russia gained latin tech, then what would be the point of having Orthodox tech group? None really.
Duma
Firstly, nobody in this thread anyway was talking at all about giving Russia Latin tech. Secondly, while it has been discussed giving the Ottomans Latin, the stipulation in this is that they'd lose it during the Bey event. Thirdly, Poland would start with Latin tech, but only keep it until 1607, at which point she has an incredibly good (if its AI) chance of dropping down to Ortho, and if a player decides to keep Latin, i'm sure he'll have some contention during the next 20 years where that +5 RR will make wars a little difficult.
So therefore, the 3 major countries that have Ortho tech group, keep ortho tech group, so there is plenty point in having Ortho tech group and I miss your point entirely. As well as Russia always lagging behind, does not Russia 95% of the time lag behind France/Spain/England as well? And believe me, Poland does not have the economy anywhere near equality of wealth with France/Spain/England, so saying Russia can never have tech parity with Poland considering her far greater potential for economic development is really quite a false arguement. Unless of course like I said before Russia decides to murder herself with bad dp settings and horrible internal control.
Remember also that we are playing historical countries here, not just colors on a map. There are certain traits and characteristics of these countries that aren't always going to be equal. Austria has certain traits that make up her national buildup which are different from France's, and as much as it sounds you would like to make all countries equal in everything, this simply isn't happening. We can't just go giving Russia Latin tech with no historical justification whatsoever because you are afraid that Russia couldn't annex Lithuania within 30 years from 1492. Maybe as you will have read in the previous posts of this thread, Russia didn't stand a chance against Poland/Lithuania until she took advantage of her at her absolute possible weakest state. If we are going to start following such logic, why don't we give Austria some more of Germany to start with, so that she'll have a chance of eating half of France as much as France has a chance of eating half of Austria?
This is about me trying to bring a very important part of the game, the eastern theater, into a reality by creating a more historical representation. It feels to me by saying things such as "Unlike some people here, MP play is far more important for balance then just propping Poland up with latin tech so you can do some naval research as well." that you are making a personal attack toward me. I don't know if you've noticed as well, that i'm not the only one saying this is a good idea, so it hardly has anything to do with me "wanting to do more naval research as well"... Speaking of which, have I ever asked you once, in any of our games, to even consider the thought of giving me Latin tech if I played Poland? Unless I was intoxicated to the point of non-rememberance, no I haven't. Frankly, I see no reason at all for these personal attacks against me and my credibility simply because you are searching for some sort of MP balance that involves completely stripping countries of their historical characterisitcs.
Finally, keep in mind considering this Russia MP balance issue, is that many people believe that Russia becomes a true Mp nation around 1617. If someone is playing Russia in the AoE like this, and there is a human Poland, this Russia is just going to have to have some sort of patience. If Russia wants to war against the Poles she is going to have to time her wars, very, very well and have limited goals in mind, and this is the way it should be. Believe me, you'll find few more sympathetic to the Russian cause than I, its in my veins after all and i've always had a fascination with the mother country, but that doesen't make me want to give it totally unhistoric boons that she in no way deserved just so she could fight Poland vis a vis, which she shouldn't be able to do till after Poland historically started to decline. Its a true shame that we've become so accustomed to Poland being drastically weaker than it should be, that we begin to think of her having her rightful strength as a threat to a situation which shouldn't have ever been a reality in the game, which is the current state of the Eastern theater.
