Pockets of provinces, How does Supply production work.

[journ21]

Well i have this nice pocket of soviets... but they are producing supplies inside the pocket....

From what I can see, they have 6 industries inside the pocket, 1 rare but plenty of metal.

each industry uses 1/2 rare so... only 2 industry should be capable of producing supplies....

they are producing between 12-80+ supply a day, varying for some reason.

anyone wanna tell me why im having such an issue starving them?

 

[tuore]

I think it's because every unit has its own 30 day supply stash with it.

 

[Raph]

It might be the stored supplies. But you're supposed to produce supplies in cut-off industries now, so I've been wondering about this too. I'd guess that cut-off factories keep building the stuff in your queue, making CG and so on, because IIRC your IC doesn't suddenly drop if a bunch of factories were cut off, and I'd guess that resource consumption goes from the general pool and not from the pocket production. If I'm right, that means that those 6 factories would make supplies according to the Soviet slider settings, with resources from outside the pocket. They just keep producing as usual, but the supplies they make stay in the pocket. Could this be the case?

 

[journ21]

It might be the stored supplies. But you're supposed to produce supplies in cut-off industries now, so I've been wondering about this too. I'd guess that cut-off factories keep building the stuff in your queue, making CG and so on, because IIRC your IC doesn't suddenly drop if a bunch of factories were cut off, and I'd guess that resource consumption goes from the general pool and not from the pocket production. If I'm right, that means that those 6 factories would make supplies according to the Soviet slider settings, with resources from outside the pocket. They just keep producing as usual, but the supplies they make stay in the pocket. Could this be the case?

Thats my only idea currently.

Because they keep producing them supplies until i take the factories...

I guess I made a good decision of cutting through Moscow earlier in the game and not including it into the pocket. If i had... i woulda never starved the 120 divisions inside.... with the way that I think the Supply production is working.

If Supply Production is the way we are thinking then you should now aim to create pockets with as few Industries as possible.

 

[tuore]

If they get no supplies in 30 days, they go out of supply and slowly shatter.

 

[journ21]

If they get no supplies in 30 days, they go out of supply and slowly shatter.

Yes, but those are on unit supplies, The supplies i am seeing being produced are in the supply depot province.

 

[journ21]

OK GUYS!

i found the answer... pretty sure

Resources are Global for industries, a pocket being cut off, that has industry still receives the resources necessary for the industries to work, as long as the capital has those resources available.


pockets of industries will continue to create supplies even if they have no resources inside the pocket. The only way to starve a pocket is to push into the pocket and capture the industry holding provinces. Only then will a pocket fully begin to "starve".

I think this may be a bug currently.

 

[Alex_brunius]

pockets of industries will continue to create supplies even if they have no resources inside the pocket. The only way to starve a pocket is to push into the pocket and capture the industry holding provinces. Only then will a pocket fully begin to "starve".

I think this may be a bug currently.

Well its better then large pockets (the size off small nations) not being able to produce any supplies at all, which is a even bigger problem in HoI2.

You could also argue that resources IRL should be stored near the Industries, so they should be able to have quite a few months of stocks nearby.

The major point of a pocket has always been to destroy divisions that can't retreat anywhere and that still remains working fine.

And it should still be possible to use Bombers/Artillery to kill the Supplies/Industry and have the units starve.

 

[Raph]

OK GUYS!

i found the answer... pretty sure

Resources are Global for industries, a pocket being cut off, that has industry still receives the resources necessary for the industries to work, as long as the capital has those resources available.


pockets of industries will continue to create supplies even if they have no resources inside the pocket. The only way to starve a pocket is to push into the pocket and capture the industry holding provinces. Only then will a pocket fully begin to "starve".

I think this may be a bug currently.

I disagree, I think this is working as intended, and I definately think that factories inside pockets should be able to produce supplies for the trapped troops.

 

[Inner Circle]

Everything working as designed...

 

[Epaminondas]

I think it's working as intended and is a useful feature of the design. But I also think journ might have identified a flaw - if the factories don't have access to resources they shouldn't be able to produce. In a way it's a repeat of the old issue where a totally isolated capital would still receive resources and produce its socks off.

Not sure that there's a way around it, however, and if I had to choose I'd certainly go this improvement rather than the previous arrangement. I rationalise it as 'scrounging' and cannibalising existing resource assets.

 

[journ21]

I think it's working as intended and is a useful feature of the design. But I also think journ might have identified a flaw - if the factories don't have access to resources they shouldn't be able to produce. In a way it's a repeat of the old issue where a totally isolated capital would still receive resources and produce its socks off.

Not sure that there's a way around it, however, and if I had to choose I'd certainly go this improvement rather than the previous arrangement. I rationalise it as 'scrounging' and cannibalising existing resource assets.

Next thing would to be having industries having a 30 day supply of resources to continue running in case of shortage, IE pocket. To simulate the use of local left over things to produce supplies.

I do agree current system is much better than old HOI 2 system, just seems weird pocketed factories can forever produce supplies.

However, now my strategy is to kill factories in the pockets via bombing / pushing in and taking the industrial centers.

 

[Rhedd]

However, now my strategy is to kill factories in the pockets via bombing / pushing in and taking the industrial centers.

Just as it should be. ^_^

 

[unmerged(197382)]

Same situations happened to me yesterday. I couldn't starve the units trapped in the pocket during the first stage of Barbarossa operation until I conquered all the IC provinces. This is surely better than the old system and I guess that it would be really hard to consider the output of the factories there to calculate the exact amount of supplies they can produce according to their raw materials and energy avialable.Maybe the trapped unit could have a small penalty to their combat efficency since they are encircled, so far so good. It simply took a little bit more time than HOI2DD to eliminate the red pockets in my grey fronts but that's all. I noticed a smarter AI counterattacking my spearheads or trying to cut them from the front or to break the encirclements. Leningrad has been an hard battle to fight (twice) and Moscow too with its 40 divs. garrison.