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Alright ingame China and North Korea will no doubt be allies in a great war in the pacific.
That said in reality, today, North Korea would only get Chinese support if the US were the aggressor. North Korea is not some kind of great military that could defeat 1 division or 1 corps of the US army in an open battle along the DMZ. Personally I would like to see the commanders you speak of saying that we cant defeat the so called might of the North Korean Air force. Our air chiefs don’t usually go around preaching doom and gloom, and I would challenge anyone to point to one instant in which an obsolete 3rd world air force using old soviet stuff has been able to stand up to modern western forces.
As for not giving up, well the Iraqis in 91 suffered weeks in which movement drew down vast American airpower. By the time we attacked on the ground their troops were starving and broken mentally. Same thing happened in the 1950 Korean War, after air interdiction and their defenses shattered following the capture of Seoul the communists surrendered by the thousands and many more left for home.
Also remember the US army is trained and equipped to fight in a NBC environment. Where as most of the peasant levy of North Korea is not. If North Korea decided to play the chemical card then well do what we did to Iraq in 1991, well let them know our carrier groups off shore are ready to respond with “Special Weapons”.
That said in reality, today, North Korea would only get Chinese support if the US were the aggressor. North Korea is not some kind of great military that could defeat 1 division or 1 corps of the US army in an open battle along the DMZ. Personally I would like to see the commanders you speak of saying that we cant defeat the so called might of the North Korean Air force. Our air chiefs don’t usually go around preaching doom and gloom, and I would challenge anyone to point to one instant in which an obsolete 3rd world air force using old soviet stuff has been able to stand up to modern western forces.
As for not giving up, well the Iraqis in 91 suffered weeks in which movement drew down vast American airpower. By the time we attacked on the ground their troops were starving and broken mentally. Same thing happened in the 1950 Korean War, after air interdiction and their defenses shattered following the capture of Seoul the communists surrendered by the thousands and many more left for home.
Also remember the US army is trained and equipped to fight in a NBC environment. Where as most of the peasant levy of North Korea is not. If North Korea decided to play the chemical card then well do what we did to Iraq in 1991, well let them know our carrier groups off shore are ready to respond with “Special Weapons”.
In case you did not get my PM, i suggest you read the Forum Rules very carefully, especially this part:Confederate said:
Forum Rules said:
Don't make me come back to this thread...
I already warned you before, do you want me to do it again? I'll delete your spam post whenever i deem it necessary...GrainedPlanet said:
well they never said we cant beat them they said it will be very hard as in many US loses. 2nd that 3rd world country tied us in the Korean war they are no push over if you think its a easy win then how come we havnt gone to Disarm NK???Buke said:
umm, since I dont wanna get banned or anything, I'm just gonna drop this subject.
P.S.
Yes, NK wouldn't be as ez as Iraq, but US would have around 50 k casualties. That is all...
P.S.
Yes, NK wouldn't be as ez as Iraq, but US would have around 50 k casualties. That is all...
Anyone have good info about the state of the NK air force and sam capacities? Wich AA missiles they have?
This site mentions something about North Korean Air and AA capabilities. Not sure how reliable but if it is, they're in bigger trouble than I thought heh.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/air-force-equipment.htm
I just don't see how anyone can sit around and seriously say that North Korea is so formidable after all the problems just stated. But that's just my view of the take.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/air-force-equipment.htm
I just don't see how anyone can sit around and seriously say that North Korea is so formidable after all the problems just stated. But that's just my view of the take.
Thank for the info Waffen. Dont looks as bad, they have lots of light Migs-17-19-21, wich IMHO are more evective to use versus the USAF than the heavier advanced aircraft. Same tactics than vietnameses.
In the links says that they uses the almost obsolete AA-2... I think they have the AA-8. Must check too.
In the links says that they uses the almost obsolete AA-2... I think they have the AA-8. Must check too.
Once the F-22 really enters into production though those Migs that they have are going to be of absolutely no consequence to the airforce. It would be like the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.
Intresting points and counterpoints here
After reading this I figure I'll toss my .02$ into the mix.
From what I am reading, there are two sides to this debait about NK/US-SK and the possibilities of a shooting war. While there is a remote possibilty of it happening, it's very slim for one basic reason.
Who's going to throw the " First Punch "
NK - NK more than likely will not unless Kim gets drunk one night and decides to let it ride. They would not have the support of China this time around, all the humanitarian aid that is being sent by sea would quickly be cut off from a US-SK blockaid, and then, to top it off... what do they really have to gain from a shooting war? Nothing.
US - The US-SK need not throw the first punch because the waiting game is taking it's toll on NK, no food or power to speak of, roads and rail lines? yeah, right. The US dosen't need to make a move right now, cause THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN from it. See how that works? most wars are started over two things, religion and commerce, granted in the last hundred years religion has taken a back seat with the exception of islamo-fascists. With that said I don't see much comming from invadeing NK at all... it's pointless and a waste of lives and money.
No since we are talking about what would happen if a war broke out let's say, for the sake of discussion, that one did.
A non NBC shooting war with NK vs US-SK
NK - Well they do have a million men in there army, impressive yes. They do have the terrian, mountians and such, cold and desolate places to fight. They are a bit fanatical, and that does count for something yes. Then we look at the way they fight... Soviet ( yes, you heard me right, Soviet ) Doctrine. Were talking wave attacks with thousands apon thousands men thrown into a meat grinder, little to no initative on the part of the junior officers from company up to regiment level, and equipment that is outdated by a good ten to fifteen years if not more.
US/SK - Poor defensive position ( look at Italy in the 40's, always eazier to fight going down country than up ) and a rather large and defenseless civilian population in places like seoul and such. Also a limited amount of forces in country atm, not enough to face a million screaming commies from the north. Then again this is the most advanced military in the world atm, also with iraq and afganistan, it's got more combat experance than most, if any.
Looks like apretty good fight I'll admit, both sides having some major advantages and disadvantages. I think you'll see it play out like this.
NK makes major gains for the first week mabey two weeks, but with some seriously appaling casuality numbers to show for it. After that the US will take air superiorty with a series of attacks from naval CAG's and stealth aircraft, hitting radar and airfields. After that it's pretty much over. The few railyards and road networks in NK will cease to exist, along with there ability to supply there troops... since there nation is already pretty much starving, how do they plan on supplying a full scale military operation in the first place?
On the side of ground warfare the US/SK forces are going to take a serious beating at first, but they will stop the NK forces with proven NATO doctrine of targeting comand and control of the NK corps/divisions and regiments. Remember that lack of initative we talked about before, well if you take out the few people in a soviet model force that make the calls... the whole thing comes to a stop. The Captians and Majors not knowing what to do next. With NK's outdated, under trained air force out of the way... well all the echelon waves of NK troops are sitting ducks, think the highway of death from GW1, but on a much larger scale... there is no were to run or hide with armored formations in the barren middle ground of korea. Now all of this depends on the US-SK forces gaining control of the air... I don't see the NK forces maintaing AS with what they have to work with.
Also another thing to consider, night fighting. The US does that very, very well. If you can expand your timetable and your ability to operate, you can really hurt the Commies during the 9pm-6am hours, when aircraft can target the masses with almost impunity.
All in all I see NK hitting hard and fast, but becomming bogged down after two weeks tops, and US retaliation will be swift and harsh with there supurb aircover until ground forces can be brought in. If this were a boxing match I'd say rounds 1-3 go to NK, after that it's a US KO in the 8th.
After reading this I figure I'll toss my .02$ into the mix.
From what I am reading, there are two sides to this debait about NK/US-SK and the possibilities of a shooting war. While there is a remote possibilty of it happening, it's very slim for one basic reason.
Who's going to throw the " First Punch "
NK - NK more than likely will not unless Kim gets drunk one night and decides to let it ride. They would not have the support of China this time around, all the humanitarian aid that is being sent by sea would quickly be cut off from a US-SK blockaid, and then, to top it off... what do they really have to gain from a shooting war? Nothing.
US - The US-SK need not throw the first punch because the waiting game is taking it's toll on NK, no food or power to speak of, roads and rail lines? yeah, right. The US dosen't need to make a move right now, cause THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN from it. See how that works? most wars are started over two things, religion and commerce, granted in the last hundred years religion has taken a back seat with the exception of islamo-fascists. With that said I don't see much comming from invadeing NK at all... it's pointless and a waste of lives and money.
No since we are talking about what would happen if a war broke out let's say, for the sake of discussion, that one did.
A non NBC shooting war with NK vs US-SK
NK - Well they do have a million men in there army, impressive yes. They do have the terrian, mountians and such, cold and desolate places to fight. They are a bit fanatical, and that does count for something yes. Then we look at the way they fight... Soviet ( yes, you heard me right, Soviet ) Doctrine. Were talking wave attacks with thousands apon thousands men thrown into a meat grinder, little to no initative on the part of the junior officers from company up to regiment level, and equipment that is outdated by a good ten to fifteen years if not more.
US/SK - Poor defensive position ( look at Italy in the 40's, always eazier to fight going down country than up ) and a rather large and defenseless civilian population in places like seoul and such. Also a limited amount of forces in country atm, not enough to face a million screaming commies from the north. Then again this is the most advanced military in the world atm, also with iraq and afganistan, it's got more combat experance than most, if any.
Looks like apretty good fight I'll admit, both sides having some major advantages and disadvantages. I think you'll see it play out like this.
NK makes major gains for the first week mabey two weeks, but with some seriously appaling casuality numbers to show for it. After that the US will take air superiorty with a series of attacks from naval CAG's and stealth aircraft, hitting radar and airfields. After that it's pretty much over. The few railyards and road networks in NK will cease to exist, along with there ability to supply there troops... since there nation is already pretty much starving, how do they plan on supplying a full scale military operation in the first place?
On the side of ground warfare the US/SK forces are going to take a serious beating at first, but they will stop the NK forces with proven NATO doctrine of targeting comand and control of the NK corps/divisions and regiments. Remember that lack of initative we talked about before, well if you take out the few people in a soviet model force that make the calls... the whole thing comes to a stop. The Captians and Majors not knowing what to do next. With NK's outdated, under trained air force out of the way... well all the echelon waves of NK troops are sitting ducks, think the highway of death from GW1, but on a much larger scale... there is no were to run or hide with armored formations in the barren middle ground of korea. Now all of this depends on the US-SK forces gaining control of the air... I don't see the NK forces maintaing AS with what they have to work with.
Also another thing to consider, night fighting. The US does that very, very well. If you can expand your timetable and your ability to operate, you can really hurt the Commies during the 9pm-6am hours, when aircraft can target the masses with almost impunity.
All in all I see NK hitting hard and fast, but becomming bogged down after two weeks tops, and US retaliation will be swift and harsh with there supurb aircover until ground forces can be brought in. If this were a boxing match I'd say rounds 1-3 go to NK, after that it's a US KO in the 8th.
you forget if NK sees it will lose it will use its 4 to 6 nukes and SK will pretty much be destroyed.
You are missing the war cost for the US. They already have big bills with the ocupation forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. They could go to war vs NK, but the budget deficit will go to the sky. Also event with draft who will ocupy NK? The SK... nah
BTW, will be represented with an event the dairy cost of have troops in Iraq and Afgha? (plus the own running cost of the troops) I think that should be.
BTW, will be represented with an event the dairy cost of have troops in Iraq and Afgha? (plus the own running cost of the troops) I think that should be.
War costs aren't as big as people make them out to be. Yes they're crucial but look at it this way. If it was as bad as people were making it out to be we wouldn't be spending the way we are. Deficit spending is bad yes. Have we gotten to the point where we're in serious trouble? No, and part of that being is they know how to fix depressions now more or less. Not to mention the event of a war like that could possibly spark the need for jobs. And I don't think a draft is necassary.
And this is about the U.S. military numbers, NK might have over a million but so do we. What boggles my mind is total U.S. military force with active army is around 1.6 million give or take a bit. Marines is around 300,000 or so. Airforce probably about half the Marines or roughly similar. Navy maybe several hundred thousand as well. That's about 2.5 million people there, than with Army reserve and National Guard regiments I'm really puzzled as to why the U.S. is claiming we have such manpower shortages. Granted yes not everyone is in a combat job but that seems a tad excessive.
And this is about the U.S. military numbers, NK might have over a million but so do we. What boggles my mind is total U.S. military force with active army is around 1.6 million give or take a bit. Marines is around 300,000 or so. Airforce probably about half the Marines or roughly similar. Navy maybe several hundred thousand as well. That's about 2.5 million people there, than with Army reserve and National Guard regiments I'm really puzzled as to why the U.S. is claiming we have such manpower shortages. Granted yes not everyone is in a combat job but that seems a tad excessive.
Jace said:
Uhhhh that's like their entire male population of able bodied people. North Korea's population is only about 33 million and it's probably less now adays. How the heck they gonna arm all those people let alone feed them? You're reaching for things that aren't there.