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Colorado1115

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I need a better eu4 player (i.e. most people) to give me advice on whether or not to retry this run, map below

First try at WC, 8500 dev, greece, yemen, dawasir, lith as vassals, just finished otto war, forcefed greece cores, just took most of portugal's non-european land, but will need 2 more wars to full annex to get their colonies and 60% of the new world with it. Is it worth continuing? I'm pretty good at managing AE and coalition juggling, but pretty weak on econ stuff.

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I'd say it's worth carrying on the attempt even if you fail, just for the experience. I'm assuming Deccan is also your subject, btw :p

I think it'd still be doable. I recommend client sates. One of the most annoying consquences of immediate truce-breaking is that you can't core land you took from the nation you break, and waiting to core it risks your enemies' colonial nations declaring independence. So, peace -> client state(s) with scutage -> truce-break, lets you get around that.

Don't underestimate the value of soldier's households + impressement offices for boosting your manpower and sailors.

Do you have the dlc that enables trade companies? If so, you should have more than 3 merchants by now.
 

Meshed Gear

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I also think it could be doable, and that even if you fail it will give you good experience for future attempts.

If you aren't already, I would recommend using the great power list as a guide on what countries you need to focus down. I'm a bit concerned that you still need to get a foothold in Great Britain, and Austria looks quite large.

Your Alexandria merchant appears to collect all of 4 ducats. I suspect have them steer trade towards one of your other collection nodes would be a better use of them. And I don't know how you are going to annex Yemen with -214 diplo power.


Wait, are you allied with Austria? If you've been relying on Austria's help, then you must have some plan to break anyone who remains a threat and then break Austria, or I don't think you can do the world conquest.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Your Alexandria merchant appears to collect all of 4 ducats. I suspect have them steer trade towards one of your other collection nodes would be a better use of them. And I don't know how you are going to annex Yemen with -214 diplo power.
Come to think of it, WC from this position is a lot easier if the goal is just WC and not one tag, since vassals count towards WC. As long as you have imperialism, spread rev, or are rev target with full influence ideas you can keep taking stuff in peace deals even at -999 DIP if it comes down to it.
 
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Colorado1115

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Jun 7, 2021
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Thanks for the advice guys, I'm going to finish it out, but I'm getting the impression that a player at my skill level can't successfully finish this run. I love EU4, I just suck at it.


I'd say it's worth carrying on the attempt even if you fail, just for the experience. I'm assuming Deccan is also your subject, btw :p

I think it'd still be doable. I recommend client sates. One of the most annoying consquences of immediate truce-breaking is that you can't core land you took from the nation you break, and waiting to core it risks your enemies' colonial nations declaring independence. So, peace -> client state(s) with scutage -> truce-break, lets you get around that.

Don't underestimate the value of soldier's households + impressement offices for boosting your manpower and sailors.

Do you have the dlc that enables trade companies? If so, you should have more than 3 merchants by now.

I've never done client states as opposed to vassals, I'll have to give that a try.
My econ is trash, can't afford to keep my merc companies and also build impressment offices to make it worthwhile in the next 100 years without slowing down my expansion rate. Or maybe I can.

I have all the DLC - I got that humble bundle with all of them at like 75% off pre-emperor, and just picked up the last two on release

I also think it could be doable, and that even if you fail it will give you good experience for future attempts.

If you aren't already, I would recommend using the great power list as a guide on what countries you need to focus down. I'm a bit concerned that you still need to get a foothold in Great Britain, and Austria looks quite large.

Your Alexandria merchant appears to collect all of 4 ducats. I suspect have them steer trade towards one of your other collection nodes would be a better use of them. And I don't know how you are going to annex Yemen with -214 diplo power.


Wait, are you allied with Austria? If you've been relying on Austria's help, then you must have some plan to break anyone who remains a threat and then break Austria, or I don't think you can do the world conquest.

I'm allied with GB and Austria, at least until I have Portugal gone. The ottomans have 330k infantry and another 150k in manpower, I'm having a hell of a time taking them on without the Austrians. Again, this probably speaks to my skill level, I've been getting the impression that at 8500 dev I should be able to swamp multiple great powers on opposite sides of the world simultaneously, but it's not the case with 25+ sepratist rebels progressing even at -5 unrest and having to keep a 30 stack in russia, china, indochina, syria, spain, and tunis.

Moved merchant, that was embarrassing.

Come to think of it, WC from this position is a lot easier if the goal is just WC and not one tag, since vassals count towards WC. As long as you have imperialism, spread rev, or are rev target with full influence ideas you can keep taking stuff in peace deals even at -999 DIP if it comes down to it.

I may just try for this


Here's my current econ, and the WP list behind it, 2 is otto, 3 is port, 4 is gb, 5 is aus
Untitled.png
 

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I've never done client states as opposed to vassals, I'll have to give that a try.
My econ is trash, can't afford to keep my merc companies and also build impressment offices to make it worthwhile in the next 100 years without slowing down my expansion rate. Or maybe I can.

I have all the DLC - I got that humble bundle with all of them at like 75% off pre-emperor, and just picked up the last two on release


Here's my current econ, and the WP list behind it, 2 is otto, 3 is port, 4 is gb, 5 is aus
You don't have enough merchants, and you're not making anywhere near enough money from trade. You should have one merchant for every trade-company region you control outside of India. In my mughals one-faith, Persia was the most valuable trade node by the time global trade spawned, and I was making hundreds and then thousands of ducats from trade. You haven't shown much of East Asia, but it doesn't look like you've taken anywhere near enough of it by now. You could be making so much more money, which lets you invest in things that let you make more money, repeat ad infinitum.
 

Saat98

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You reaaally need to improve your econ. Better eco=more soldiers=you can stomp ottomans without allies. Also, better econ means better advisors, which alliviate your mana problems

I don't know what idea groups have you taken, but if you are going for wc you should take humanism and give the estate privilege that lets you tolerate heathens. That way you don't have to keep stacks in random places.

First of all, TC everything your GC can afford. Second, choose your collection node and make all of your merchants steer towards that node. You are losing a lot of money by collecting in more than one node. Being where you are, I would recommend Alexandria as your home node and steer towards there. Conquer SEA and continue with India and China. That's where the ducats are. In general, as any nation, you should strive for trade to be your main source of income before absolutism.

Stop currying favors with Austria. Even if you wouldn't want to conquer them, you will never run out of favors now that you have 95 and you are that big.

And don't rent mercenaries. They're the worst.
 
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Colorado1115

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You don't have enough merchants, and you're not making anywhere near enough money from trade. You should have one merchant for every trade-company region you control outside of India. In my mughals one-faith, Persia was the most valuable trade node by the time global trade spawned, and I was making hundreds and then thousands of ducats from trade. You haven't shown much of East Asia, but it doesn't look like you've taken anywhere near enough of it by now. You could be making so much more money, which lets you invest in things that let you make more money, repeat ad infinitum.

How do I get merchants from trade companies? I've made a few in areas where I have more than 50% of the node, but I'm not getting additional merchants. Should I have taken trade ideas? I initially was going for one-faith as well as wc, just to see if I could do it, so I took adm>dip>religious>quantity>influence>offensive. I also ended up with a 5/6/5 who boosted me through 40 years pre-absolutism, doubt I'll see that again.

I'm going to go ahead and restart the run, I think at this point I'm too weak to do much other than chase rebels and maybe take out half of europe at best.

You reaaally need to improve your econ. Better eco=more soldiers=you can stomp ottomans without allies. Also, better econ means better advisors, which alliviate your mana problems

I don't know what idea groups have you taken, but if you are going for wc you should take humanism and give the estate privilege that lets you tolerate heathens. That way you don't have to keep stacks in random places.

First of all, TC everything your GC can afford. Second, choose your collection node and make all of your merchants steer towards that node. You are losing a lot of money by collecting in more than one node. Being where you are, I would recommend Alexandria as your home node and steer towards there. Conquer SEA and continue with India and China. That's where the ducats are. In general, as any nation, you should strive for trade to be your main source of income before absolutism.

Stop currying favors with Austria. Even if you wouldn't want to conquer them, you will never run out of favors now that you have 95 and you are that big.

And don't rent mercenaries. They're the worst.

This is what made me decide to restart. I made too many errors too early in the run that are just getting massively magnified. The steering all trade towards one specific node is an idea that I've never done, so thank you for that. My question about what qualifies a TC region for a merchant still stands though, how many provinces do I need to add to the TC in a region before I get a merchant? As a trial run I've added most of ethopia and most of russia/kazan to TCs, I have 57% and 87%s of the trade in the nodes, but I'm not getting an additional merchant.


Edit- Never mind, I just added every province in the node and I got the merchant. Should I do this for every non-stated province I have?
 

petertju

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I wouldn't say that you're shit at the game, you have quite a nice country for 1720. This is still possible to WC from.

Your economy is a problem. I think your expansion focus has not been totally in the right direction. North Africa, Scandinavia, Poland/Lithaunia and Ethiopia are not focus areas. They really don't give you a lot of return, if any.

I see in your second picture that you don't own Indochina and I'm gonna guess that you also don't own Indonesia. Because of this your trade income sucks for the amount of power you have.
 

Saat98

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How do I get merchants from trade companies? I've made a few in areas where I have more than 50% of the node, but I'm not getting additional merchants. Should I have taken trade ideas? I initially was going for one-faith as well as wc, just to see if I could do it, so I took adm>dip>religious>quantity>influence>offensive. I also ended up with a 5/6/5 who boosted me through 40 years pre-absolutism, doubt I'll see that again.

I'm going to go ahead and restart the run, I think at this point I'm too weak to do much other than chase rebels and maybe take out half of europe at best.



This is what made me decide to restart. I made too many errors too early in the run that are just getting massively magnified. The steering all trade towards one specific node is an idea that I've never done, so thank you for that. My question about what qualifies a TC region for a merchant still stands though, how many provinces do I need to add to the TC in a region before I get a merchant? As a trial run I've added most of ethopia and most of russia/kazan to TCs, I have 57% and 87%s of the trade in the nodes, but I'm not getting an additional merchant.


Edit- Never mind, I just added every province in the node and I got the merchant. Should I do this for every non-stated province I have?
Yes, you should add every territory province to a TC, especially the provinces in the most wealthy nodes, and also you should buy a town hall for every province you have (or the GC won't be enough). If possible, move your capital to Europe, so you can TC all of India. You get a merchant from a TC as long as 51% of the provincial trade power (that means: no trade power from ships) is owned by you. Sometimes, a really wealthy province with a lot of trade power and a COT is enough to get this 51%. Also, try to conquer the constantinople node. It is better than Alexandria.

If you feel that you are not going to finish this run (or in other run), take trade. It makes you reaaaally wealthy. You don't need it for a WC since either way you'll be rich after a while, but for a more normal game, you can claim econ hegemony without much effort. Btw, econ hegemony really helps, especially now in 1.31 that your vassals won't hate you if you take the hegemony.
 

Colorado1115

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I wouldn't say that you're shit at the game, you have quite a nice country for 1720. This is still possible to WC from.

Your economy is a problem. I think your expansion focus has not been totally in the right direction. North Africa, Scandinavia, Poland/Lithaunia and Ethiopia are not focus areas. They really don't give you a lot of return, if any.

I see in your second picture that you don't own Indochina and I'm gonna guess that you also don't own Indonesia. Because of this your trade income sucks for the amount of power you have.

I'm going to try again with a stronger economic focus, I think you're correct about my direction of expansion, too. I'm probably going to try again either as Timurid Mughals or Austria, which directions should I be expanding first? One thing I'm really looking for is a benchmark guide for WC that isn't an hourlong youtube video.

Something like,

1500. annexed tim vassals, eating jaunpur and malwa, started snake to stop Russian siberian expansion

1600. India conquered, qq, aq, caucasus conquered, mamlukes and otto checked or crippled

1700 Ming dying on the vine, Malacca trade node in process of being conquered

I feel like I'm flailing around blindly, waiting until neighbors are in the middle of a war and jumping them, etc, I set goals for myself to conquer X province by Y date, but I have no idea if the goals are correct.


I'm going to try Austria next, tired of mughals at the moment. Any suggestions on revoking privilgia ASAP? I'm thinking of No-cbing byzantium on december 11th to vassalize them and throttle otto expansion.
 

Meshed Gear

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Personally, I'm a fan of having Zanzibar be your trade collection node when playing an Asian or African country. It's an easy node to control, and a lot of trade can be funneled towards it. Constantinople is good too, but that requires breaking the Ottomans which tends to take longer than annexing Kilwa does.

I'm guessing that you were worried about Russia spreading eastwards and focused on that early on. It's a valid concern, but only needed to take a handful of provinces to block them off since Siberian frontiers requires being adjacent. Would be better to leave them after that and switch to conquering East Asia and your chosen long-term collection node, for the buckets of ducats as others have said.

1500. annexed tim vassals, eating jaunpur and malwa, started snake to stop Russian siberian expansion

1600. India conquered, qq, aq, caucasus conquered, mamlukes and otto checked or crippled

1700 Ming dying on the vine, Malacca trade node in process of being conquered

I would say your early goals are fine. As long as 'stop Russia' isn't 'conquer and hold the entire Russia region'

If possible, balancing the Mamluks and the Ottomans against each other can stop either from growing out of control and keep them manageable. Assuming you are in a position to do so before they resolve their rivalry. Conquering India is good, conquering those other places is situational depending on your trade and diplomatic aims. Blocking the eastward expansion of the Ottomans is easier than conquering the whole region and may be sufficient.

The 1700 goals concern me. China's coastline is valuable, and Malacca is an important node for trade. Once you have India conquered, or even before you're finished, you should be working on Malacca. As you're doing so, looking for ways to mess up China's mandate. Basically, you need an economy to raise large armies so your armies should focus on conquering places that will improve your economy.

I'm not going to use specific years, but my personal recommendation is:
  1. Build your local power (Tim/North India)
  2. Early expansion (Persia/Bengal) with optional Russia snake and Otto blocks
  3. Begin consolidating trade control (Malacca/South India/your desired collection node)
  4. More trade wars (Malacca/Moluccas/Canton/Nanjing/your desired collection node/anyone whose capital is in between these) and ideally have more than three merchants. If you own Zanzibar make it a TC. If you conquer or colonize South Africa make it a TC. South Africa is a special note because you basically only need Cape province to get a free merchant. If the Ottomans folded hard and you own their land you could move your capital over and make Asia into a bunch of TC. Colonial nations can also give you a merchant if they hold ten provinces. If you took exploration to try and get colonialism to spawn in your country you could colonize five provinces in Australia and subsidize them two or three ducats to colonize five more and give you an extra merchant.
  5. Use the big profits to buy big armies for the big wars up ahead. The world can be your oyster, if you're careful.
 

TeutonicTortoise

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Timurids is the most straight forward with the into Mughals, assimilate Hindustani for -10ccc, blob India and into QQ and AQ if possible release Syria from their core in AQ. Timurids follow the flow of trade so nice setup and to block Russia you don't even need to go to war with them just takeout Uzbek take exploration get the first idea colonise the 1 tile gap above Uzbek then abandon exploration ideas.

Austria opening you either aim towards crippling Ottos with a war maybe for a byzantium vassal or go straight into securing the end node of Venice then building on that and for both while managing HRE shenanigans.
 

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Just because I did not actually see the correct information (maybe it is there, but I did not see it)
In the subjects tab you can also find your trade companies. There is a symbol with a merchant there (either active or inactive). If you hover over this symbol the mouseover reveals how much trade power the trade company has in this region. This needs to be >50%.
Not your own total trade power, not ships, not something else. The power of the land held by your trade company needs to be >50%.

Now then, the easiest way is of course to just add everything to the trade company. May be expensive government capacity wise. You want to add territories with trade modifiers (natural harbour, center of trade, etc.) This will add most power share per province. You also want to build marketplaces there. You do not want to build marketplaces in non-trade company provinces. This is counterproductive. Possibly also sending ships to protect trade may be counter productive. Haven't tested that.

You may also want to make sure that you are not bordering on just above 50%. Monthly fluctuation can make your merchant appear or disappear again. Aim for something like 55%.

As for conquering the world. It is not actually so difficult. Just extremely tedious.
Do take Humanist ideas before you start to snowball. Rebels will suck the will to live out of you. I always try to take religious, because this time I will make it work. It never does. Humanist >>> Religious.
Anything that reduces yers of separatism is great.
Core cost reduction. You need it, you want it. Not just because of the power points saved, most important is the shorter coring time.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Do take Humanist ideas before you start to snowball. Rebels will suck the will to live out of you. I always try to take religious, because this time I will make it work. It never does. Humanist >>> Religious.

I've done religious-based one tag/one faiths, twice. Once as Sunni Ottomans, other time as Hungary. Ottomans was before they made CNs stop converting, but you can tear through a lot of conversions with unify Islam late game now, especially with monument bonuses.

Based on that experience...yep. Humanist >>> religious. Religious allows you to pay for the privilege of paying even more to fight additional rebels as you convert, and is only worth your time when pursuing the one faith achievement or the player-goal of one culture etc. Religious gets the job done, but aside from using deus vult until imperialism is available it is otherwise badly outclassed by simply tolerating wrong religions and right clicking away that conversion icon forever.

The sad thing is that all of this was true since a few years BEFORE Pdox randomly nerfed converting provinces.
 

Colorado1115

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Timurids is the most straight forward with the into Mughals, assimilate Hindustani for -10ccc, blob India and into QQ and AQ if possible release Syria from their core in AQ. Timurids follow the flow of trade so nice setup and to block Russia you don't even need to go to war with them just takeout Uzbek take exploration get the first idea colonise the 1 tile gap above Uzbek then abandon exploration ideas.

Austria opening you either aim towards crippling Ottos with a war maybe for a byzantium vassal or go straight into securing the end node of Venice then building on that and for both while managing HRE shenanigans.

So I abandoned the mughal run and started an Aus one. I've got my map below - the same question applies, is this salvageable?
All of the usual suspects are PU, as well as Russia, and I'm working on getting a hapsburg on the portuguese throne so I can force PU them.

That yellow thing in anatolia is a vassal.

I'm leaving the mamlukes until I can revoke the privilgea.

I no-cb'd every center of reformation except one, which caused a protestant league of about 10 people and a catholic league of 50+, so there's no hope of the league war firing. I was about 40 IA away from erbkaisertum, but now I'm stuck for like 50 years.

On a related note, why is it that I get a absolute ton of AE with the expand empire CB? I forced Genoa into the empire and got hit with 150+AE.

Also, have I snaked far enough east? Literally just went thru afghanastan, Timurids are the vassal I'll be forcefeeding in the area. I'm concerned that my usual strat of releasing a large Indian/Chinese vassal and feeding them back their cores will give me crazy coalitions and/or take too long.

Thanks again to everyone for all of your help, learned more in this thread than playing for the last several months.
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Meshed Gear

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I would say, personally, that leaving the Mamluks unmolested is a mistake. From a religious point of view, you should take Jerusalem. It's not that far from your borders, and it is a noteworthy province. Mecca is noteworthy as well but is farther away, if you don't want to deal with that it matters less. But you should take Jerusalem. From an economic point of view, they hold part of Aleppo. You are steering trade from Aleppo. Click the trade button, see what provinces they own in the node, and conquer them. Either directly or as a vassal (probably Syria). Doing so will increase the money you can transfer, increasing your income. Aleppo also feed into Alexandria, so it will simultaneously reduce the trade income of the Mamluks. Two birds, one stone. From a geographic point of view, holding the Sinai peninsula will handicap the Mamluks. If nothing else, I would still recommend owning it and never giving them or anyone they are at war with military access. Ideally, this would cost them some wars and make your own job easier later on.

If they declare war on Tunis/Alodia/Oman/Qara Qoyunlu you really should drop whatever other immediate plans you had and declare your own war. If it's on Shammar and you don't think you can 1v1 the Mamluks, maybe not.

Using Timurids looks good, no complaints there. I feel like moving the Wien merchant to Persia might increase your trade income, especially if you consolidate your control of that node. Haven't used expand empire cb, personally, but have heard it makes a lot of ae.

Do you have no provinces you can convert to the true faith? Even if you tolerate wrong religions, I'm sure some of your subjects could use conversions.
 

petertju

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Looks good!

I would like to expand on one specific point. no-cb'ing every center of reformation(COR). no-cb's can be very useful and are not as bad as people often say, so it's really good that you are using it. But I feel that it is not necessary to do 5 no-cb's for the COR. if an OPM has a COR and is less than 50% warscore, you can force convert them while they are non cobelligerent. If they are between 50 and 100, they have to be cobelligerent.

Let's say that Berg has a COR and is allied with someone on your border, for example Salzburg. Than you declare war on Salzburg and drag Berg in the war(even paying off their debt if necessary). With 1.31 you can chain cobelligerents and reach every nation in the HRE. Even if you are outnumbered, you just need to peace that one country out, afterwards you can just white peace.

This saves you a lot of admin and AE within the HRE. It can also be a lot quicker and you might have been able to stop the reformation before you have a league.

I'm concerned that my usual strat of releasing a large Indian/Chinese vassal and feeding them back their cores will give me crazy coalitions and/or take too long.
Feeding back cores is AE wise always better than just taking it directly. Just make sure you have the right CB. Also, to manage your AE, focus on one religion at a time. Religion is an important factor in determining the AE per country, if you attack sunni's as a christian, than hindu's wont care. So make sure to keep attacking sunni's until they are quite weak or until you are truce juggling them.
 
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iClipse

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Your current run looks great. But honestly, your first run was also still going well. You vastly underestimate how much you can conquer in the last 50 years. I think you can do literally half the world in 1770-1820. Especially as the Mughals, with their +10 admin efficiency.
 

Naresh

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I recently did my first ever world conquest, starting as the oirat. By 1550 I was still finish off china and working my way through india, by 1600 I was in constant coalitions and dealing with large mams/ottomans. By 1650 I was chewing hard through europe and by 1700 I had nothing left to eat but america after most of it broke free from the other powers.

I finished off all of america in under 30 years.

What I learnt was:
1. Keep on top of trade. Trade means more money, better advisors, more buildings. It's a trade off between trade companies and normal land, but having 10-20-30 merchants means you can stay liquid, even above force limits, even in heavy attrition, even with lv 5 advisors and spamming out the buildings.
2. Play coalitions smart. I got stone walled 3 times by coalitions that contained nations all over the world, in the first, a 5 year war saw me peacing out to give a few provinces from an all to the leader. The second, I capitulated immediately, releasing a couple of decent sized countries. The third was western europe, and I fought through it for a white peace so I could declare again sooner.

Try to keep nations off balance. Sometimes breaking truces, taking cash, setting up long truce timers is just as important as just taking land (assuming you can't eat them in one go). When someone comes off truce, DoW, once a couple of nations join a coalition its a slow snowball into a brick wall. Even if you white peace 6 months later, its still better than austria being in a coalition and bringing in all their buddies.
3. Manpower matters. Soldiers houses, barracks, stack em up and stack em early. My post 1600 wars were entirely attrition. I'd lose fights left right and centre, but still win the war, a manpower cap of a few hundred thousand does wonders for bouncing back and winning. There will be rebels, LOTS of rebels, whilst they were always a nuisance (looking at a stack of 709k particularists was spicy, I capitulated there too, money from point 1 meant the 200 I lost from force limits was still leaving me green).
4. Take forts, break countries. War exhaustion is a glorious thing, you might have taken a few dozen provinces, but with some quick reviewing the enemies cores, you can usually get some rebels popping up to release old nations without too much hassle. Twofer as the main nation is now weaker, and you have a new neighbour with no AE against you and no truce timer. Forts are ass. They take forever to siege, even with 9 day siege timers and loads of cannons. I usually prioritise my first war against a big enemy taking the forts, the second his islands and out of the way provinces, and stripping them into small chunks (better for rebels) The borders aren't pretty but make future wars much easier. Additionally, don't keep all those forts. Keep enough that the enemy can't just run half way across the world and start carpet sieging.

5. Take humanist... Take diplomatic. Humanist gives amazing bonuses for a WC, religious unity, reduced revolt risk. When I was at 0 overextension (rarely) my unrest was at about -10 to 20. Meaning the rebel sentiments event for +15 RR barely touched me unless I was over 100% OE. Diplomatic, because you'll be truce breaking a lot, and reduced province cost is amazing.