Plots and hooks and agents

[hjarg]

Hello!

Watching the streams and the murdering and kidnapping sprees gave me a question- all the agents involved get a hook on Alfonso, right?
Meaning that "I know you had your brother killed"

Can they also turn into "I know you had your brother killed and you know, I would really love to be Count of X?"
Can you be blackmailed by your agents?
Will this come to bite Alfonso in the buttocks?
Would it be smart to also murder the agents involved in the scheme, so you don't get discovered as kinslayer?

 

[Alenarae118]

Hello!

Watching the streams and the murdering and kidnapping sprees gave me a question- all the agents involved get a hook on Alfonso, right?
Meaning that "I know you had your brother killed"

Can they also turn into "I know you had your brother killed and you know, I would really love to be Count of X?"
Can you be blackmailed by your agents?
Will this come to bite Alfonso in the buttocks?
Would it be smart to also murder the agents involved in the scheme, so you don't get discovered as kinslayer?

Agents don't get secrets, and they don't get hooks on the ruler.

 

[Xain]

Hello!

Watching the streams and the murdering and kidnapping sprees gave me a question- all the agents involved get a hook on Alfonso, right?
Meaning that "I know you had your brother killed"

Can they also turn into "I know you had your brother killed and you know, I would really love to be Count of X?"
Can you be blackmailed by your agents?
Will this come to bite Alfonso in the buttocks?
Would it be smart to also murder the agents involved in the scheme, so you don't get discovered as kinslayer?

Agents don't get secrets, and they don't get hooks on the ruler.

Exactly, that was asked in the relative DD and the devs said that it would lead to a proliferation of secrets around the world, making for an un-fun gameplay. It's a pity, because it would be a way to deter overeager schemers - but it's an understandable choice.

 

[philanthropic19]

This is an interesting point and needs to be discussed. Since the agent himself was involved in the murder, I don't see how the agent can blackmail the schemer. Aren't both of them participants in the act?

I think what would make sense is if someone finds out about the scheme pre-murder or post-murder (a drunk agent revealed it to someone or someone's spymaster found out via find secrets mission), then they should be able to blackmail the schemer.

 

[Evangeline]

Edit: this is meant as a suggestion of how the whole plot system of involving others in your schemes could be implemented better, namely by withholding some information from the player so that asking someone to join is a bit risky.

Yes, both were involved, but only one of them became a kinslayer through this. Agents should have the choice to expose their own plot involvements (and suffer the consequences) if motivated to do so.

Even more: what about all the people you can ask if they'd be willing to join who AREN'T willing to join? Shouldn't anyone refusing you carry the great risk of them exposing your plot before it gets anywhere? Why in the world can anyone say "what? no!! I would never kill my grandfather!!" and then your plot simply goes on unaffected, instead of that person immediately ratting you out to their grandfather? IMHO, they should change the agent system so that it will only give you a guesstimate of who might accept (not a ridiculously precise -23% chance), and then you have to decide if you want to risk asking that person if they'd be interested in joining. If you're lucky, they'll join, but if you chose unwisely or were unlucky, they might refuse and not just refuse but expose you right away.

 

[Alenarae118]

Yes, both were involved, but only one of them became a kinslayer through this. Agents should have the choice to expose their own plot involvements (and suffer the consequences) if motivated to do so.

Even more: what about all the people you can ask if they'd be willing to join who AREN'T willing to join? Shouldn't anyone refusing you carry the great risk of them exposing your plot before it gets anywhere? Why in the world can anyone say "what? no!! I would never kill my grandfather!!" and then your plot simply goes on unaffected, instead of that person immediately ratting you out to their grandfather? IMHO, they should change the agent system so that it will only give you a guesstimate of who might accept (not a ridiculously precise -23% chance), and then you have to decide if you want to risk asking that person if they'd be interested in joining. If you're lucky, they'll join, but if you chose unwisely or were unlucky, they might refuse and not just refuse but expose you right away.

Because you can't ask them, that is a list of people who can be asked and you can only ask people or bribe them into it, if they will accept.

It is just a gameplay thing, so we can see everyone who is viable join.

 

[Evangeline]

I know you can't ask them the way the game is designed right now, I'm saying it should be designed differently, with a system of asking people to join while risking plot exposure.

 

[Alenarae118]

I know you can't ask them the way the game is designed right now, I'm saying it should be designed differently, with a system of asking people to join while risking plot exposure.

Should make it clear it is a suggestion of something to do with the system.

 

[Evangeline]

Done! Since the game is not yet out and they're still changing things, I thought it was clear that I was critiquing the current way it's implemented and suggesting an alternative.

 

[Alenarae118]

Done! Since the game is not yet out and they're still changing things, I thought it was clear that I was critiquing the current way it's implemented and suggesting an alternative.

well it is really only two weeks till launch and the devs have locked in the release version around the beginning of the month

 

[philanthropic19]

Even more: what about all the people you can ask if they'd be willing to join who AREN'T willing to join? Shouldn't anyone refusing you carry the great risk of them exposing your plot before it gets anywhere? Why in the world can anyone say "what? no!! I would never kill my grandfather!!" and then your plot simply goes on unaffected, instead of that person immediately ratting you out to their grandfather? IMHO, they should change the agent system so that it will only give you a guesstimate of who might accept (not a ridiculously precise -23% chance), and then you have to decide if you want to risk asking that person if they'd be interested in joining. If you're lucky, they'll join, but if you chose unwisely or were unlucky, they might refuse and not just refuse but expose you right away.

I think this is a great point and should be a thing. I also found it quite strange in CK2 when some people would ask me to "join their plot" and I would decline but at the same time that plot would not exist in the list of "Known Plots" in the Intrigue tab. There need to more repercussions for asking people to join your murder plot. If the idea is to not make the game too "un-fun" then maybe make this part of a difficulty rating whereby on easier difficulties you get the exact % value of acceptance but at higher difficulty ratings the acceptance score is more vague.