Please unlock the merchant's spread religion policy!

[howlling]

Islam is the most famous and representative of religious propagation through merchants, but as far as I know, other religions (countries) also used to actively spread religion through merchants.

Portugal and the Netherlands spread Christianity to Japan.
Hinduism spread to Southeast Asia along the trade winds.
Even Buddhism (though not during the Europa era) spread to China along the Silk Road.

Merchant's religion propagation policy is a very useful policy effect, but it feels pretty unfortunate that it only exists in Islamic countries.

1) Put a reform that unlocks the policy in Tier 4 (Religion) / 8 (Trade) Government Reform.
2) How about unlocking it when adopting a trade ideology?

Instead, Islamic countries have this policy unlocked by default. Then, through additional reform/ideology, trade power conditions can be removed or additional effects can be obtained.

 

[Oporto]

Why don't you write a suggestion in "Suggestions" subforum about it?

 

[jonjowett]

It's worth pointing out that there's a hidden feature of this "merchants spread religion" ability: the religions that can't be converted by merchants.

• For Islam, it's: other Islamic denominations, all Christian denominations, and Judaism.
• For Hinduism, it's: Hindusim, Islam, Christianity and Judaism. (IE: Kinda useless.)
• For Riga with Salvific Plutocracy in the Age of Reformation, I think everything can be converted?

Overall, if you want to suggest an expansion of this feature, I think it's important to also discuss how these unconvertible religions are set up.

 

[howlling]

Why don't you write a suggestion in "Suggestions" subforum about it?

Let's have a reaction and a discussion here.
Anyway, the developers also see here.

It's worth pointing out that there's a hidden feature of this "merchants spread religion" ability: the religions that can't be converted by merchants.

• For Islam, it's: other Islamic denominations, all Christian denominations, and Judaism.
• For Hinduism, it's: Hindusim, Islam, Christianity and Judaism. (IE: Kinda useless.)
• For Riga with Salvific Plutocracy in the Age of Reformation, I think everything can be converted?

Overall, if you want to suggest an expansion of this feature, I think it's important to also discuss how these unconvertible religions are set up.

Oh, that's for sure.
Why don't you decide based on your tolerance for heresy and the existence of Dhimmi rather than the existing 'religious classification'?

1) Dhimmi does not exist: activation of heathens - Activate merchant conversions targeting heathens provinces
2) Dhimmi does not exist and heresy tolerance is (-) : heresy conversion is activated.
3) Dhimmi does not exist and heresy tolerance is (+) : Enable Conversion, but it has a very low priority and defaults to other pagan provinces.

4) Dhimmi exist. : Disables pagan conversions targeting Christianity and Judaism, instead increases production efficiency.
5) Dhimmi exist and heresy tolerance is (+). : Disable heretical conversions, activate conversions through government reforms, or similarly gain additional bonuses to trade.
6) Dhimmi exist, but heresy tolerance is (-). : Inactivation of heretical conversion. Tier 4 / Tier 8 government additional reforms to gain missionary power bonuses through Trade Propagation / Missionaries.

 

[Josar]

It might be a decent idea to have this unlocked to various country specific government reforms.

 

[windwalker14]

I agree with the history part of your comments, but game mechanic wise, every religion needs to feel different or there is no need for religion. It is a nice advantage for Islam that separates them from the rest of the crowd. Historically accurate, absolutely not.

 

[Maxxie42]

I agree with the history part of your comments, but game mechanic wise, every religion needs to feel different or there is no need for religion. It is a nice advantage for Islam that separates them from the rest of the crowd. Historically accurate, absolutely not.

Islam already has plenty of specificities though. You have the slider, plus the ability to burn 50 legalism or mysticism for money or manpower. You also have the seven schools, with their dynamic relationships, and the ability to invite scholars. And you even have to Unify Islam decision, along with the name change to The Caliphate.

I'm not actually a big fan of the Propagate Religion mechanic, but since it's there, it would be nice to extend it to other religions as well. Personnally, I think it would be cool to unlock it via the Religious-Trade policy. Religious is quite a bit inferior to Humanist at the moment, and Trade has been severely weakened by the ability to lake trade companies everywhere, so they could use the boost.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I agree with the history part of your comments, but game mechanic wise, every religion needs to feel different or there is no need for religion. It is a nice advantage for Islam that separates them from the rest of the crowd. Historically accurate, absolutely not.

Of all the religions Islam has the most potential to spread. But because of the AI's over reliance on Dhimmi autonomy its actually a bit of a PITA to spread it around and any vassals with Christian land must be annexed.

 

[Pellucid]

Devs have an odd perception of Islam. They seem to think it was spread easily and then extremely difficult to convert back, which has more to do with modern Islamic fundamentalist states than Islam as a whole throughout history.

It's weird to me that Islam is the only religion with a proselytization mechanic when Catholicism was by far the most successfully spread religion in the timeframe. Islam being the one to exclusively get that mechanic would be more appropriate in the Crusader Kings era. I think they're just trying to model what happened in Indonesia, but that seems like it should be a special Indonesia-specific mechanic, not a generalized Islamic one.

 

[jonjowett]

Of all the religions Islam has the most potential to spread. But because of the AI's over reliance on Dhimmi autonomy its actually a bit of a PITA to spread it around and any vassals with Christian land must be annexed.

FYI, if you take religious ideas, then your same-religion subjects should try to revoke the dhimmi autonomy privilege asap. (Of course, they might not be able to do so immediately, due to loyalty issues etc, but it should happen eventually.) (EDIT: Similarly, religious ideas will cause your same-religion subjects to try to revoke guaranteed orthodox autonomy.) And, for colonies, "modifying subject relationship" with "religious integration" should make them convert their land.

 

[howlling]

great!
You generally agree with the subject.
If so, let's set the following goals and precautions.

1) Compensation for Islam, where dhimmi exist and there is already a religion propagation policy / Reinforcement of 4th and 8th tier government reforms. - Conversion power bonus against T.C for example?

2) Synergy with trade ideology, if government reform unlocks religion propagation. - Troop morale and movement speed bonuses for example in provinces of the same religion on different subcontinents?

3) Religious conversion priority for heresy and paganism

4) What bonuses would be provided for merchants' propagation of religion if the 'thalassocracy' government reform was adopted?