Please strengthen the Asian countries

  • Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


seamoss

Sergeant
40 Badges
Jan 9, 2010
63
4
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
Yes the Asians are comparatively weaker than Europeans in the timeline of EU, but historically the Iberians were not able to conquer Japan in mid-17th century; nor did the Russians advance to the spice isles before they advance to the Baltic. Now these weird things always happen.
The fact is, not only the Asian countries are victims, but the other colonization powers also suffer. Say, when a European country player begins the oversea expansion after spending 200 years effort shaping the continent by his will, only to find he has little to do to weaken the superior status of Spain/Portugal/Russia in Far East. In fact, I never saw the British or Dutch managed to undermine the Iberian empire in Asia, although historically they are the winners in India and spice isles.
 

quoms

Captain
55 Badges
Nov 18, 2013
408
271
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
On one hand the Asian (and all non-Western) countries do need to be strengthened; on the other hand Spain's free colonist desperately needs to be removed as, as has been noted time and time again on this forum, it leads to ridiculous outcomes particularly in the Pacific and Eastern Siberia.

As for the Dutch, the Netherlands don't always form and rarely prosper in 1044 games, but something extra might be done to make late-game colonization easier for them (both AI and players). France has an NI that reduces native aggression and I think the Dutch could use one to reduce the tropical climate penalty. Almost all the territory available by the time the Dutch get rolling is tropical, and certainly the Spice Islands are. The AI tends strongly away from tropical territory unless it's the absolute last thing left, and something to reduce that attitude for the Dutch might allow them to get the jump on the Iberians in certain regions.

You know, while Spain colonizes Australia and New Zealand. Just like history.
 

Wudadi

Captain
59 Badges
Mar 19, 2014
486
100
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Yes the Asians are comparatively weaker than Europeans in the timeline of EU, but historically the Iberians were not able to conquer Japan in mid-17th century; nor did the Russians advance to the spice isles before they advance to the Baltic. Now these weird things always happen.
The fact is, not only the Asian countries are victims, but the other colonization powers also suffer. Say, when a European country player begins the oversea expansion after spending 200 years effort shaping the continent by his will, only to find he has little to do to weaken the superior status of Spain/Portugal/Russia in Far East. In fact, I never saw the British or Dutch managed to undermine the Iberian empire in Asia, although historically they are the winners in India and spice isles.
Did Ming weaker than Europeans in 1644? Which European country wanted to fight with Ming? Portugal?Netherlands?England?Who won the battle in history? They were defeated by Ming because they are far from Ming?How many troops in Europe?2000K? How many troops in Ming?I just know 2000K troops in Yong Le Emperor period. Also, Russa were defeated by Qing in 1686.
Waiting Asia DLC.
 

Maximonium

Second Lieutenant
103 Badges
Dec 30, 2009
113
9
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Crusader Kings II
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Magicka
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll get a somewhat alright buff with whatever focused DLC they decide to do several months down the road, that and fixing the hordes after the last run with the incompetence stick.
 

IZob

Cunning Strategy Enthusiast
42 Badges
Feb 15, 2012
3.017
256
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I am tired of seeing this happen:

View attachment 105549

1 Russia attacks Ming.
2 Demands 3 (or more) key provinces.
3 Releases 3 nations as vassals from those provinces (Xi, Zhou and Shun).
4 Then Russia attacks Ming again, and demands a huge amount of cores back to those vassals for no aggressive expansion. And lets face it, they shouldn't really be cores to these nations. They are puppet states who should not have any cores over those provinces in Ming! (claims would be ok, but not cores!).
5 Ming is utterly crushed, and Russia is now Russia + China = OP (annexing those vassals gives immediate cores).

And take a good look at the date. Its 1560!!! South America isn't even fully colonise by then....


Now that^ would never happen in SP by the AI. But in multiplayer, it happens all the damn time and it is utterly ridiculous. Please paradox, change it.
 

Wudadi

Captain
59 Badges
Mar 19, 2014
486
100
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Because a lot of provinces in Europe; A few provinces in Asia. Especially China. One Chinese province equal 10~15 Western European provinces, so I think one European province = a city of one Chinese province. As we know, more provinces more incomes, manpower and troops in this game. And technology weaker than Nomandic(barbarian )!!! That's why Europe stronger than Asia in the game.
How to fix those things? I think adding more provinces in Asia (especially China) and change the level of technology.
 
Last edited:

Sky_WKing

Second Lieutenant
10 Badges
Dec 23, 2013
184
3
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Did Ming weaker than Europeans in 1644? Which European country wanted to fight with Ming? Portugal?Netherlands?England?Who won the battle in history? They were defeated by Ming because they are far from Ming?How many troops in Europe?2000K? How many troops in Ming?I just know 2000K troops in Yong Le Emperor period. Also, Russa were defeated by Qing in 1686.
Waiting Asia DLC.

Wars in China were completely on a different scale compared to those in Europe. Doom stacks of 200K were pretty common even in BC era. We Chinese people simply laugh at the so-called "decisive grand battles" in Europe that involve perhaps 30k on each side. Any European invasion on China would be suicidal until post-napoleonic era: we had more troops than their population. The only reason Chinese emperors didn't stomp every single nation on the planet was that they didn't bother, but a player would always do that.
 

IZob

Cunning Strategy Enthusiast
42 Badges
Feb 15, 2012
3.017
256
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I think the number of provinces in Asia is ok. The base tax there is also fine. I think if more provinces were added, it would only make the high-tech invaders more powerful - the situation would become worse. Because the high tech invaders would still win and claim those provinces.

More resistance to these high-tech invaders is needed, and I think that should be done by adding special national modifiers to the Asian tech groups.

Specifically they should have something like +25% land force limits. +25% manpower. 10% discount on troops. More troops for the invaders to fight will increases the attrition of war and will make victory all the more harder.


And replacing Xi, Zhou and Shun cores with claims.
 

oblio-

Wallachian Warlord
16 Badges
Dec 4, 2013
3.604
1.089
oblio360.com
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
Wars in China were completely on a different scale compared to those in Europe. Doom stacks of 200K were pretty common even in BC era. We Chinese people simply laugh at the so-called "decisive grand battles" in Europe that involve perhaps 30k on each side. Any European invasion on China would be suicidal until post-napoleonic era: we had more troops than their population. The only reason Chinese emperors didn't stomp every single nation on the planet was that they didn't bother, but a player would always do that.
A war is not won through sheer numbers alone.
I thought your northern neighbors taught you that lesson 2 times. Kind of cocky to think that the Chinese emperors could have stomped the entire world when they got stomped by regional minors twice.

Back to the topic:
I feel that the monarch point malus for every tech group above sub-Saharan is unwarranted. They have tech penalties, no need for -1 each month. This is regarding the tech.
The units are being overhauled and I hope/think that the Chinese are getting better units for the next DLC - at least that's what I understand from Paradox.
 
Last edited:

moyang

Major
34 Badges
Jan 24, 2014
769
442
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
But seriously, Chinese tech starts with lv 2 techs when others start with 3 is nonsense.
 

Alblaka

Foresightful Flag-Choser
99 Badges
Apr 12, 2013
3.983
1.476
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
Just jump into the tech defining file (locating in \common) and give Chinese 0 MP penality (so they gain 3 points instead of 2, base per month) and give them starting tech 4. Makes for a more realistic (Chinese technology/culture was a bit ahead of European around 1200, but fell behind later on) and definitely more gameplay-interesting scenario.
 

oblio-

Wallachian Warlord
16 Badges
Dec 4, 2013
3.604
1.089
oblio360.com
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Prison Architect
And there goes my Ironman.

On a more serious note, Paradox should start 1000 games in observe mode and see what happens with Asia when Chinese tech gets these buffs.
After that, they should start some multiplayer games (about which many EU4 players don't care, but still), and see if Ming is really overpowered - which is their main concern.
 

PeterCorless

General
74 Badges
May 4, 2006
1.947
1.216
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
If they created greater attrition for carrying troops, or had some other form of attenuation of imperial control over distance that would stop some of the nonsense of Portugal conquering India in the 16th Century.

The Russian roflstomping of China is also out of control.

The biggest issue I see is one of way-too-rapid-and-successful colonization. Usually by 1700, the U.S., Africa and Asia looks like 1850, with nary a spot on the map for new colonies.

But the population of the New World should be infinitesimal compared to Europe and Asia.

Best change that could be made for the game would be to remove one colonist on the QFTNW track, leaving only one there, and one in Expansion idea. That would slow the rate down of global exploration by a third. This would also cut back on Russia rushing to the Pacific by the 16th Century. I mean, hell, Vladivostok was not founded until 1860. And what population and military reached that far east of the Urals was minor at best.

It is not until the railroad and the steamship that moving vast troops to Asia was really possible.

So that's my first and biggest suggestion -- nerf the colonization and expansion of the western powers. (Yes, take out Spain's extra colonist too.)

Secondly, I'd also push for more of a parity during the early years of the game between cultures. There's no reason Chinese armies would have been worse than the Europeans.

What I sort of wish was that "advanced technology/culture" was something that nations could unlock with various social developments. What if "westernization" had come from a Muslim nation? They invented algebra, chemistry, and were pioneers in astronomy.

It is only with hindsight that we can see that "Western" technical superiority was a foregone conclusion. For instance, if Byzantium had fended off the Turks (a fantasy commonly played out in the game), there would not have been a rush of scholars to western cities, which fueled the the Renaissance. What if the "Western" tech group actually lagged, say, an "Eastern" European tech group?

It's just something to think about, mm?

But that's probably too radical except for someone's awesome mod.
 

petertel123

Lt. General
44 Badges
Sep 18, 2010
1.512
1.877
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Wars in China were completely on a different scale compared to those in Europe. Doom stacks of 200K were pretty common even in BC era. We Chinese people simply laugh at the so-called "decisive grand battles" in Europe that involve perhaps 30k on each side. Any European invasion on China would be suicidal until post-napoleonic era: we had more troops than their population. The only reason Chinese emperors didn't stomp every single nation on the planet was that they didn't bother, but a player would always do that.
China? you mean that country that got stomped by every nation on the planet?
 

Nunn45

General
88 Badges
Mar 18, 2012
2.331
23
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Surviving Mars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
The biggest issue i see is with Tech, its absurd how far behind they get and how absolutely useless their units are compared to western tech.
Europe shouldnt be able to launch a successful land based invasion of China or Japan with a few thousand troops and fend off huge amounts defenders as they constantly can.
 

PandaL

Second Lieutenant
82 Badges
Oct 29, 2011
158
54
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Iron Cross
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Starvoid
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
I think Shun, Zhou, Xi cores within Ming should be removed (having Shun cores at 1400s and 1500s is quite ridiculous as well). This at least can prevent Ming from getting eaten up in two wars. Another way to simulate Ming's collapse might be needed, but at least one that is less exploitable. Also any countries breaking from Ming should have decision, mission or events about reuniting China.
 

Bonafide

Major
87 Badges
Mar 2, 2011
563
16
  • Victoria 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Empire of Sin
  • March of the Eagles
As someone mentioned, China starting with tech level 2 is a bit odd considering how far ahead they were on most areas. I'm not suggesting a tech increase to like, 5, but at least on par with Muslim and European techs.
 

Murmeldjuret

01_COUP_PROPOSE
103 Badges
Dec 14, 2010
974
3.139
  • Victoria 2
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Magicka
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
The productive capacity in terms of goods produced and energy harnessed, China had more than entirety of Europe until the latter half of the 1700s. Which would mean the entire EUIV timeframe. China had more IC than the collected IC of Europe throughout the timeframe. Ming China had a tax of 2.5%, and still it was the richest country in the world. Compare that to the 10% tax owed to the catholic church alone.

What Europe did have was a more advanced navy and realpolitik thinking (diplo tech) and military theory (mil tech).
Even though Sun Tzu wrote a really solid theory on warfare, Europe had never lost its military supremacy.
The first thing Europe did when it came to new lands was to destabilize them politically and seize any bottlenecks it could. Thus, with smaller and poorer nations they could control trade and the seas. The seizures of the straights of Aden/Hormuz/Malacca show just how quickly and effectively the Europeans went from nobodies to trade leaders of Asia.
But on the administrative and industrial side, Europe was centuries behind china at the start of the timeframe. China should be on equal footing adm tech cost, but behind in the other techs. The notion that China starts behind Europe in adm tech is as wrong as it gets.