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RedRalphWiggum

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Maybe I overestimate the importance of mods yes, I admit I'm a little biased here as they're so important for me.

Don't get me wrong, I've had many fun hours playing mods from the forum. I think Paradox do a lot to make their games moddable, and I'd be surprised if that's about to stop. I really see no conflict between the two. I'm a pretty loyal Paradox fan, so maybe I'm being naive, but I doubt they are going to try and screw over modders with this, in fact I wonder if they won't be quite complimentary to one another.

Let's just wait and see, will we?
 

Nuril

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Forumites comprise a small % of peopple who play Paradox games, AFAIK.

Well yes, and my friends who play Paradox games don't use the forum at all, but they have mods installed that they see are highly regarded. I realize that a great many players might only play vanilla (and for EU3 I often find that the larger mods make too many drastic changes to graphics etc. for my liking), but nevertheless there's still a potential group who would be, as he argued, less inclined to buy the official one and thus create a conflict between developer and community.

I don't agree, of course, since Paradox has the ability to edit the existing mechanics themselves and I hardly think putting an Allsherjargoði or such in charge of a "Norse Papacy" does any good at all, where as changing the Religious screen to something more suitable overall would be in their capacity. And a dedicated Pagan/Muslim mod would most likely move to include the new mechanics, thus seeking to add content to the DLC, not compete with it.
 

leggbros

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Please don't compare Day-1 DLC unlocking to "Additional content later on with considerate balancing and updating so people don't all end up playing disconnected versions". I'm not a supporter of the Pre-Order DLCs being considered separate content, which could be considered of that sort for anyone not in-the-know, but that's just silly.

It's more akin to MMO-expansions, where the content and rules change for everyone and it's patched to work well with the changes, but in contrast this is a largely single-player game so it doesn't screw anyone out of having anyone to play with nor does it mean automatic inferiority if you were to play multiplayer games.

I'm just hoping that it doesn't end up causing trouble for modders.

Well I consider MMOs charging for expansions to be one of the most most ridiculous things in gaming today. I don't even think they should be charging for the base game if you are going to pay a monthly fee, but an expansion? I lol.

Can someone in the know answer whether the pre order DLC will be included in all games in an unpurchased state or not. Also, is graphical DLC going to be included in the patches and you have to buy to unlock them or when you buy a graphics addition is that just a regular download type thing like how sprite packs currently work I believe. Are there other cultures without faces in the game?
 

Sevi

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If they make DLCs (which they probably will) I think they should atleast make them really big and add loads of stuff to them, or make them cheap. I amn't sure I would buy, say "Play as Pagans" for 10 €, but if there was a DLC "Pagans and Muslims" (probably with a better name) I would probably buy it for 10 € if it was well made.
 

Nuril

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Well I consider MMOs charging for expansions to be one of the most most ridiculous things in gaming today. I don't even think they should be charging for the base game if you are going to pay a monthly fee, but an expansion? I lol.

..Surely that is incredibly misdirected? The highly objectionable and shady business practice of MMOs is their monthly fees (modern tech has the cost of running it far, far below that and it's mainly for additional profit as they get away with it), not for the larger chunks of new content.. o_o

Besides, you don't pay a monthly fee to play CK2, so I don't see what the point even is in bringing that up. Just as a red herring?

Can someone in the know answer whether the pre order DLC will be included in all games in an unpurchased state or not. Also, is graphical DLC going to be included in the patches and you have to buy to unlock them or when you buy a graphics addition is that just a regular download type thing like how sprite packs currently work I believe. Are there other cultures without faces in the game?

It's included in digital pre-orders and it seems that according to the files in the Demo that the base-game is set up according to DLC possibilities, so eventhough the Mongols can get their upgrade from Muslim graphics in Vanilla they still have their own graphics-group. So if you put a character as Mongol graphical-culture then if they have the DLC he'd show up as intended but not if you don't.
 

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DLC has a bad sound to it after how many other companies had used it to rip off their customers so I guess people are simply worried when you use the same term and announcing a big change in DLC/patching strategy.

I think this is what most people (Including myself) are worried about, that in the past it has just been a way to rip off customers. I'm not opposed to the concept, just the execution.

To me it sounds like Paradox are essentially implementing a "modular expansion" type of DLC (I'm leaving the sprite packs and the likes out of this, as that's purely cosmetic). Where instead of an expansion after a year, you'd have the features that you might expect from such an expansion released as 4 DLCs spread throughout that year. Allowing you to get just the ones that interest you. Bundling the available DLC together every once in a while for a discount would pretty much be like a classic expansion. A system like this gives flexibility for the customer: For instance that EU3 expansion with the focus on China/Japan. In a DLC system, a patch would've added balance and interface improvements made for that expansion for everyone, but only those who paid for it would have the extra content. The fact that people want those things and pay for them, gives Paradox some money to spend on fixes that will benefit everyone. Win-win. I'd imagine that DLCs also give Paradox a slightly more even revenue stream, which makes their life easier even if the sum total would be the same.

Now, that's a hypothetical example of a DLC system that would make sense to me, providing it's reasonably priced. Hoping to see it, or something similar, at work here with CK2. Having been a loyal Paradox customer for a decade now I have more faith in you than I do most developers so I think it'll turn out decently, but I have been so disappointed in the DLC systems I've seen elsewhere that I still worry.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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OK, we've had three warnings to stay on topic and now we're discussing MMOs' business model. Considering how many threads the forum has already had on DLCs, I think it's fair to say this one has outlived it's usefulness. There are other places on the forum to discuss non-CK2 specific DLC policies.
 
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