Please stop with this DLC bull****

[Darkrenown]

Gamersgate Method:
1. Download game
2. The game is actually your property, you can mod, burn on CD/DVD/USB-Stick/Very much Floppy Disks etc.
3. Enjoy.

See, I don't play vanilla games for long. I play mods. My own mods.
And if I f* want to play patch 1.3 then I don't download Patch 1.4.
And believe me or not, I got PCs where I don't have Internet Access. For real.

You can copy the game out of the Steam folder, have multiple copies, and burn to cd or whatever, it's no different.

Sorry Letar! No more Steam/GG talk, the rest of you.

 

[xGhost4000x]

Traditional way:
1. I really want to play game x.
2. Lets find those CDs.
2e. Oh, CDs were lost / are in that cardboard box in the cellar.
3. Insert CD into tray.
3e. Oh, the CD is scratched. Too bad.
4. Start install.
5. Change CDs if applicable.
6. Redo steps 2-5 for any expansions.
7. Find patch(es) from somewhere. Curse broken links and all other hindrances of web.
8. Install patches.
9. Play.

Steam method:
1. I really want to play game x.
2. Start installing the game and any expansions.
(3. Write this post)
4. Play.

This.


Not to mention some games stop getting released on CDs and are then difficult to find/buy.

I wanted to play "The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle Earth II: The Rise of the Witch King" <--That really is the title...it got an award for longest title in an expansion!

But I apparently misplaced my cds....I figured I'd just buy it again...it's not on any Digital Distribution platform....okay I though I'd just buy it from amazon...HAH look at these prices:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1....,cf.osb&fp=e2c30c4a0a1843ca&biw=1440&bih=749

 

[Panjer]

Back in the Good Old Days when sun was brither, cookies sweeter and girls had bigger boobs, getting an expansion for high quality game ensured money well spent. Remember those names such as Yuri's reverenge, Lord of Destruction, Frozen Throne or Throne of Bhaal?

As much as I love the game it was rushed through the door with a lot of the plot elements cut from the game entirely, don't think it should be in the list.

I'm going to wait and see how Paradox handles DLC before I pass judgement.

 

[Archam]

The only thing that bothers me about DLCs are the problems they will create with modding.
If I think about an awesome mod like PDM for vicky2, I can't see it work with a DLC model :

If all the features sold in A House Divided had been sold in separated DLCs, there would have been dozens of different versions of the game because of all the different possible combinations. PDM modifies every single aspect of the game, how could it possibly adapt to that ? It would have to tweak and balance the mod to be compatible with every possible combination of DLCs and this is impossible.
With AHD coming out as an expansion the modding team is working on a new standart version of the game which is the same for the all community. They have a solid, stable base to work on and they can start a new version of the mod knowing everyone has the same game with the same mechanics.

If multiple game mechanics are added by DLCs no global mod for the game (like PDM or MM) will be possible. No mod will be abble to change every aspect of the game, you will only have small mods working with x batch of DLCs or even designed for a single DLC. The player will be confronted to this choice : either I play with mods or with DLCs. This dilemma was already present with expansions (like in HOI3 : either you play FTM or you play Semper Fi's mods) but DLCs are only going to make things worst.

I'm affraid massive DLCs will seriously limit the modding possibilities for a game. I'm not really worried about the multiplayer because PI said somewhere that if the host of a game has a DLC all other players will have it too (and that's how it works in Magicka already so I trust them) but I don't see any solution to the modding problem.

Worst than that it might even create a competition between modders and devs instead of a cooperation. A muslim DLC is asked a lot on the forums but I'm sure there will quickly be a muslim mod created, perhaps even before the DLC. The mod and the DLC will be in open competition and in my opinion it can't be good, because in that situation, PI will have interest to limit the mods to sell its DLCs .
Currently the mods are adding to the games and are making them more attractive to customers (I bought AHD mainly because the next PDM version will be on AHD), but with a DLC model the mod are just going to be open competitors of the DLCs and PI will no longer have interest to support the modding community, I don't want to see such situation.

 

[Wallain]

I don't see a problem with DLC so long they are done properly.

 

[Johan]

I don't understand the "anti-DLC complaints" on the forum.

HoI3 has 12 different DLC's and expansions released & every customer has bought about 5,75 dlc's each.

 

[Talar]

If there is a muslim mod the DLC would have to be significantly better or no one would buy it. Regardless we get to play muslims either way, win-win.

As I understand the model game mechanic changes will be included in free patches. So when the muslim DLC is out, there will be a free patch for everyone including the required changes/balancing, but only the people with the DLC would be able to actually play as muslims and have the content. So it would improve the game a little for everyone, and even more for the people who buy it.
So if this works as I think it's supposed to there will still be one "common base" of the game.

I may of course be completely wrong, but if they start to mess this up I'm sure we will notice so I will not start worrying until I see that happening.

 

[Talar]

I don't understand the "anti-DLC complaints" on the forum.

HoI3 has 12 different DLC's and expansions released & every customer has bought about 5,75 dlc's each.

DLC has a bad sound to it after how many other companies had used it to rip off their customers so I guess people are simply worried when you use the same term and announcing a big change in DLC/patching strategy. But as long the whole thing works out like you have described it I don't think you have anything to worry about and people will continue to buy it. DLC in itself is not good or bad, it's all about how you use it

 

[Mowers]

Free things are nice! I myself am a person who enjoys free things. You know what isn't free though? Living expenses. Unfortunately, the people at Paradox being people and all, have these living expenses. That is expenses that they incur in order to continue living. While it would be nice to live in a perfect Marxist society where everyone just works for the good of all, unfortunately Sweden is trapped within the confines of evil capitalism, and therefore the people who make patches and DLC need to be paid. For them to be paid, there has to be revenue coming into the company. I took out my calculator and did up the profit projections for "free." It comes out to around $0.00. Also unfortunately, $0.00 doesn't seem to be enough to pay for indefinite labour on these patches.

Here's my solution. Slavery. I say we start a political party in Sweden to legalize slavery, and then subsequently enslave the people at Paradox so that they have to work for us, for free. It's bulletproof.

LOL

Awesome post.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

It really depends on what type of DLC it is etc..

I could understand you could be annoyed if all the dlcs, was small packages with cosmetic + gameplay changing stuff and we got 55 of them...

At the moment, its purely cosmetic and if you play MP you will get the exact same as the host (all will have the same!) the 2 dlcs made already was done so to make a nice preorder bonus. (again its cosmetic).
Personaly, I would buy any good cosmetic dlcs and ditch the ones I didnt like and still all my MP games wont be effected nor will I be affected by gamechange!! I can't really see why you hate this so much.. its all over the gaming world and have been for many years now...
The nice thing about this is that, you don't have to buy these dlcs!! its like a option.. IE. Do you want to pay X$ for X spritepack or do you like it just as it is ?? or do you like the similar modded one ???.... options are fine and when its stricly cosmetic its even better..

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

The way I see it is

• I don't do multiplayer, so it's not an issue in that respect for me
• They are voluntary, if you don't like them don't pay for them, just as I always specify no mayonnaise with my bagel, but I don't complain that the shop offers it
• I have never seen any indication that development of the core games suffers in any way by virtue of the DLCs existing
• since the new policy was announced, we haven't really seen any manifestation of it, so while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't see how you can be annoyed about the existence of something you haven't and DO NOT NEED to use!

 

[Mowers]

I don't understand the "anti-DLC complaints" on the forum.

HoI3 has 12 different DLC's and expansions released & every customer has bought about 5,75 dlc's each.

I don't get it either.

Elements of the community has to understand that the development process had to change and that because of this change DLC has made some okay games into great games. It's been, pardon the pun, a game changer.

If you want very complex, big games we have to pay and the money being asked is no more than a couple of beers. If that's still too much wait till the price drops (there is a nice function on gamersgate for this).

 

[Johan]

As I understand the model game mechanic changes will be included in free patches. So when the muslim DLC is out, there will be a free patch for everyone including the required changes/balancing, but only the people with the DLC would be able to actually play as muslims and have the content. So it would improve the game a little for everyone, and even more for the people who buy it.
So if this works as I think it's supposed to there will still be one "common base" of the game.

Thats the idea!

 

[Aeon221]

The only thing that bothers me about DLCs are the problems they will create with modding.
If I think about an awesome mod like PDM for vicky2, I can't see it work with a DLC model :

If all the features sold in A House Divided had been sold in separated DLCs, there would have been dozens of different versions of the game because of all the different possible combinations. PDM modifies every single aspect of the game, how could it possibly adapt to that ? It would have to tweak and balance the mod to be compatible with every possible combination of DLCs and this is impossible.
With AHD coming out as an expansion the modding team is working on a new standart version of the game which is the same for the all community. They have a solid, stable base to work on and they can start a new version of the mod knowing everyone has the same game with the same mechanics.

If multiple game mechanics are added by DLCs no global mod for the game (like PDM or MM) will be possible. No mod will be abble to change every aspect of the game, you will only have small mods working with x batch of DLCs or even designed for a single DLC. The player will be confronted to this choice : either I play with mods or with DLCs. This dilemma was already present with expansions (like in HOI3 : either you play FTM or you play Semper Fi's mods) but DLCs are only going to make things worst.

I'm affraid massive DLCs will seriously limit the modding possibilities for a game. I'm not really worried about the multiplayer because PI said somewhere that if the host of a game has a DLC all other players will have it too (and that's how it works in Magicka already so I trust them) but I don't see any solution to the modding problem.

Worst than that it might even create a competition between modders and devs instead of a cooperation. A muslim DLC is asked a lot on the forums but I'm sure there will quickly be a muslim mod created, perhaps even before the DLC. The mod and the DLC will be in open competition and in my opinion it can't be good, because in that situation, PI will have interest to limit the mods to sell its DLCs .
Currently the mods are adding to the games and are making them more attractive to customers (I bought AHD mainly because the next PDM version will be on AHD), but with a DLC model the mod are just going to be open competitors of the DLCs and PI will no longer have interest to support the modding community, I don't want to see such situation.

Several things.

There are sprite packs in Vicky2, and they work fine with PDM.

AHD is DLC. Look at the steam page.

Competition is good, but your posited competition between devs and modders is hilarious. Why would you even think that? Devs are trying to provide entertaining content for money, modders are working on top of that existing framework.

In short,

 

[leggbros]

Thats the idea!

Oh I didn't realize that. Like when EA has DLC on the disc and makes you pay to unlock it, except this is given to us for free and you make us pay to unlock it? Will all games have the pre order DLC already installed too, but if you don't pre order you have to pay to unlock it??

Is there a post someone can direct me to that details the technical aspect of how the game knows what DLC you have, how it is "installed", and how your game is linked to it from a DRM aspect?

 

[Nuril]

Oh I didn't realize that. Like when EA has DLC on the disc and makes you pay to unlock it, except this is given to us for free and you make us pay to unlock it? Will all games have the pre order DLC already installed too, but if you don't pre order you have to pay to unlock it??

Please don't compare Day-1 DLC unlocking to "Additional content later on with considerate balancing and updating so people don't all end up playing disconnected versions". I'm not a supporter of the Pre-Order DLCs being considered separate content, which could be considered of that sort for anyone not in-the-know, but that's just silly.

It's more akin to MMO-expansions, where the content and rules change for everyone and it's patched to work well with the changes, but in contrast this is a largely single-player game so it doesn't screw anyone out of having anyone to play with nor does it mean automatic inferiority if you were to play multiplayer games.

I'm just hoping that it doesn't end up causing trouble for modders.

 

[Archam]

Several things.

There are sprite packs in Vicky2, and they work fine with PDM.

Because they are sprite packs, they don't modifie the game .

AHD is DLC. Look at the steam page.

Of it's course it's a downloadable content and I have nothing against it, because it's a big one and it doesn't divide the community with an infinity of possible combinations.
If Paradoxe was to regroup the ten or twelve most popular DLCs and sell them in a batch I would have nothing against that and would probably buy it. I'm just conscerned about a multiplication of little DLCs that would divide the community and prevent an ambitous overhaul mod.

Competition is good, but your posited competition between devs and modders is hilarious. Why would you even think that? Devs are trying to provide entertaining content for money, modders are working on top of that existing framework.

You just didn't understand the idea : if a muslim mod comes out and is better than the DLC, the DLC will sell less or not at all. Therefore PI would have interest to prevent such mod to be created, I'm not saying they are going to do it, I just notice that it would create a situation where the modding community reduces PI sells instead of increasing them and I think it would be an unpleasant situation for everyone.

 

[marcist]

Let me beging by saying that I am not made of money, but what's a few dollars extra for things you want? If I really want something, and it will make my experience better and me happier, I'll spend the few dollars more. Jeez I've got 5 dollars in my pocket almost always. You enjoy yourself playing the games for hours and hours.. divide the cost of the game (DLCs and all) by the number of hours you play it, I'll bet for the fans I see on the forums, it will come out to a few cents per hour. Let's get real, you're not deciding between getting a DLC and eating a meal that night.

If there's a DLC worth buying in my eyes, I will.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

You just didn't understand the idea : if a muslim mod comes out and is better than the DLC, the DLC will sell less or not at all. Therefore PI would have interest to prevent such mod to be created, I'm not saying they are going to do it, I just notice that it would create a situation where the modding community reduces PI sells instead of increasing them and I think it would be an unpleasant situation for everyone.

Forumites comprise a small % of peopple who play Paradox games, AFAIK.

 

[Archam]

Forumites comprise a small % of peopple who play Paradox games, AFAIK.

Maybe I overestimate the importance of mods yes, I admit I'm a little biased here as they're so important for me.