Please remove the game breaking "historical friendship" between France and Aragon

[ElGranCapitan]

So, I know those 2 are not really historical friends, but they ally whenever they don't rival each other. They probably ally in >80% of all starts

That is annyoing for the player, as you want to crush France early but not fight Aragon (waisting ressources to send your future PU subject into a death spiral isn't a good idea)

But it's even worse for the AI, and I suspect this is why we see Spain formed a lot less (a few patches ago it was like 90% or more, now it's way down). Spain was THE strongest country in Europe for ~150 years (from the italian wars to the 30 years war) so I'd like to see weird Iberias a lot less.

Also while we are at it, discussing diplomacy, could Austria please stop filling it's diplo slots with OPMs? Especially free cities? That's redundant, they'll get a defensive CtA from free cities anyway as the Emperor and the free cities troops are not gonna help Austria

 

[eroskos]

This isn't game-breaking.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Not for the player, but for the AI. AI Castile regularly gets beat up by France and Aragon. Not only does that lead to one of the major powers of that time period not existing, it also causes further issues with the new world not being colonized properly (especially if Portugal goes for Africa or doesn't make enough money to colonize at all) so playing as a native is annoying as well

 

[Dominion]

Have to disagree with the >80% alliance. As usual sample sizes are low and extrapolating like that always seems... weird

France does destroy Castille harder than before on the current patch, that's an issue. It's also true that Spain forms less often.
Though I still see them in half my games. That's an issue because it's way down from what it was before, but still.

Agree with the behavior of Austria though. They start games with at least 1 relation over cap, sometimes even 3, which is silly. The dip cap is there for a reason.

Currently it's actually best for them to lose Emperorship and ally the new Emperor. Makes for a scary strong HRE.

 

[durbal]

The wars usually occur because of Aragon's mission to subjugate Navarra. It's not just a problem that France and Aragon are allies.

 

[bradles0]

france and aragon ally, castille allies navarra, aragon attack navarra with subjugate CB, france and aragon spank castille to the stone age. RIP iberia.

solutions:
1: play england, ally aragon (now france hates them )
2: let iberian wedding pop for aragon instead of castille if aragon has more dev than castille when the things are met (i know that player aragons already get favored, so this is doable)
3: remove aragon's subjugate navarre mission
4: remove aragon and castille's historical rivalry

 

[Imperator_Thrawn]

Aragon and Castille are not historical rivals.

 

[bradles0]

Aragon and Castille are not historical rivals.

i meant historical rivals in the 100% chance to rival each other sense, not the actual relations modifier.

 

[Sharples88]

Aragon and Castille are not historical rivals.

The game treats them like they are historical rivals though until an event shows up with the union, which is very weird. This happens even if Aragon took land from Castile or Castile took land from Aragon, why would the AI accept this union from 1. Their rival (game mechanic wise) and 2. From those who took the land.

I've seen one game out of maybe a hundred where Castile and Aragon ally.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

The whole rivalry mechanic needs to be rethought, nations pick rivals purely based on the fact that they are valid rivals and always fill out their 3 slots..even if that hurts them

For example, in history Burgundy was the deciding factor in the hundred years war, they were allied to England when Henry V won against the French king and was named his heir in 1420, later they flipped sides and joined the French..we all know the outcome of that. Yet both England and France rival Burgundy, rather than try to get them on their side like they should

 

[CplKatie]

This thread made me remember I been meaning to ask, why is the new world institution always firing really late? I disagree with the OP's point though, its 50/50 and even if castille takes a hit from them to start eventually iberian wedding fires and Aragons land they took from Castille eventually returns through the integration/decision. This quite literally is not an issue.

 

[Vetgirig]

This thread made me remember I been meaning to ask, why is the new world institution always firing really late? I disagree with the OP's point though, its 50/50 and even if castille takes a hit from them to start eventually iberian wedding fires and Aragons land they took from Castille eventually returns through the integration/decision. This quite literally is not an issue.

For each province that can possible spawn an institution there is a 10% each year that it will spawn in that province.

If none or few provinces can spawn an institution it can take some time until one spawns. Portugal only have a few provinces that has the development needed to spawn an institution.

Also if there is alot of wars in iberia, Portugal and/or castile ships might have been destroyed in the war. That will make them late to send out ships to explore to find America.

 

[evilcat]

Rivalry system is not perfect, since you need 3 of them. Despite your intencion to ever attack target.
Maybe there should "you need 1 rival" and 2 more are optional.
Other problem is when you can set the rivalry but you cant war for conquest. like PLC and Muscovy, you need to count on Lithuania to fabric something, oneday.

France+Aragon is not that bad, since there is also England+Castille. And Castille can only chill to get Aragon. Castille+France is also a thing. Too bad Austria prefers Saltzburg over great powers.

 

[Ninaran]

This thread made me remember I been meaning to ask, why is the new world institution always firing really late? I disagree with the OP's point though, its 50/50 and even if castille takes a hit from them to start eventually iberian wedding fires and Aragons land they took from Castille eventually returns through the integration/decision. This quite literally is not an issue.

I usually see the "problem" of late institution spawn with Global Trade usually. One time it was delayed by nine years, by which point the spawn point shifted away from my Baltic Sea to Constantinople in my recent multiplayer match, because it gave the Ottoman player time to conquer more stuff and divert trade that way.

 

[WeissRaben]

Spain was THE strongest country in Europe for ~150 years (from the italian wars to the 30 years war) so I'd like to see weird Iberias a lot less.

Meh. Spain, with almost the whole of the Americas, with Portugal under PU, with Italy, the Low Countries, and for a period the HRE too, was the strongest country in Europe. The Iberian peninsula was seldom host to great power, and I'd say that leaning on other places for its own benefit is what led to Spain collapsing in power when said places were lost. Spain was powerful because of owning those lands, not the other way around.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Meh. Spain, with almost the whole of the Americas, with Portugal under PU, with Italy, the Low Countries, and for a period the HRE too, was the strongest country in Europe. The Iberian peninsula was seldom host to great power, and I'd say that leaning on other places for its own benefit is what led to Spain collapsing in power when said places were lost. Spain was powerful because of owning those lands, not the other way around.

Yeah, I don't disagree, but I wasn't talking about Spain in it's current borders, but the Spanish Empire as a whole (or Habsburg Empire if you will). I just realized, my username combined with the post might make it sound like I'm some kind of Spanish nationalist, when in fact I'm from Austria and just interested in Spanish history (and especially the period of Habsburg Spain)

I just think there should be more tools that help the AI to achieve some of it's historical feats. Some Empires are railroded for success (Ottomans, Russia and especially France)

Others are lacking, Spain is one of them and the original purpose of the thread was to adress this AI behaviour that creates Castilian-French wars far too early, at a time when AI Casstile can't fight back. Another thing is missions to actually conquer the colonies Spain held (similiar to the missions Russia and the Ottomans get)
Another problem is the Austrian-Spanish marriage event being bugged. There's 2 events, one that gives Spain a Habsburg and one that gives them a Habsburg and the low countries. But the second one only works if Austria got the low countries as marriage partner of Burgundy, not if they got it as Emperor (and since Austria never marries Burgundy that event never fires)

Spain is not the only historical empire that suffers from this problem of almost never achieveing it's historical successes, Mughals and Qing as well.