As discussed here and mentioned in a number of posts across other threads, the starting setup for the Saxons is totally broken as of the 1.07 patch. In 1.06 I seem to remember that the Saxons had a numerical advantage but found it difficult to successfully fend off both invaders, which is exactly what happened and just as it should be. For some reason, however, in 1.07 (and continuing in 1.08) the Norwegians and Normans were both given more troops, and the Saxons significantly fewer, making it practically impossible to win. As has been discussed, the only viable options are to drag in a number of unlikely allies or to hope that one or both enemy leaders are killed in battle, which of course is totally random. In terms of dragging in foreign allies -- such as the old favorite of conducting a marriage alliance with the Emperor and waiting for his troops to roll in -- whilst this can be a useful tactic, it's both based purely on chance (will he accept? how long will it takes for troops to arrive?) and a totally ahistorical and implausible exploit.
I've been testing a number of scenarios so as to try and bring back a more 1.06-style balance, and I've come up with this. My amendments are in orange.
EDIT: Specifically, the troop numbers and the 'unyielding_leader' trait. The other traits were added later, based on what was said of Harold and the fact he's an important character currently with very few traits.
saxon.txt
The chronicler Orderic Vitalis wrote of Harold that he "was very tall and handsome, remarkable for his physical strength, his courage and eloquence, his ready jests and acts of valour. But what were these gifts to him without honour, which is the root of all good?"
Harold's ambition and deceit are well-known of course, but I do think it's worth representing him as strong and brave, and he was clearly both of these things. He never shied away from battle, always led from the front and was apparently a very powerful and towering figure. He should clearly be ambitious; he took after his father and certainly had no qualms in taking the crown as soon as Edward died and then raising an army and fighting off two invasions in order to keep it.
I should point out that I've quickly tested this as all three leaders and won as each of them. As Harold, you can choose to defeat either Harald or William and win quite comfortably (particularly if you let Harald attack you across a river and cut-off William's forces before he lands and regroups) but once you face the other it becomes very, very difficult. The trick here is of course to try to defeat one, force peace, hire mercenaries and then defeat the other. This is easier said than done, though, as it will almost certainly involve conquering their own provinces.
Quite simply, the 1.07/8 1066 setup has no element of balance at all, as it relies purely on exploits or the Saxons will lose every time. If you give the Saxons some more troops, however, then you'll be able to at least stand a chance.
Also, as yet another knock to the Saxons, William's forces can now move across the Channel in one go, whereas before they had to come across in two separate trips and so it was possible to defeat the Normans in two or three swift battles on the coast of Kent.
By re-balancing the numbers like this, the scenario becomes more fun because it's possible to win as anyone, but it's also a challenge for everyone. William still has the advantage, though, because the Saxon AI will almost always face the Norwegians first (thereby losing a good chunk of their starting force) and the Normans have a natural advantage thanks to their knight lists and other starting buildings. In a defensive setting, however, Harold's new trait will really help him. This is to represent the famous Saxon shield wall and the fact that the army at Hastings literally fought to the death.
The Normans usually win, followed by the Saxons, as it should be. If you really want a perfect Norman setup then that's exactly what the second 1066 scenario is for.
Oh, and remember that Harald and William both have plenty of cash for mercenaries. Harold has none...
Thanks.
I've been testing a number of scenarios so as to try and bring back a more 1.06-style balance, and I've come up with this. My amendments are in orange.
EDIT: Specifically, the troop numbers and the 'unyielding_leader' trait. The other traits were added later, based on what was said of Harold and the fact he's an important character currently with very few traits.
saxon.txt
Code:
122 = {
name="Harold" # Godwineson, king of England
dynasty=756
dna="medjejoencc"
properties="ae00e0"
martial=8
diplomacy=6
intrigue=5
stewardship=6
religion="catholic"
culture="saxon"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="ambitious"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="deceitful"[/COLOR]
add_trait="arbitrary"
add_trait="proud"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="brave"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="strong"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="fair"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="gregarious"[/COLOR]
add_trait="skilled_tactician"
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]add_trait="unyielding_leader"[/COLOR]
father=120
mother=101534
1022.1.1={
birth="1022.1.1"
}
1048.1.1={
add_spouse=131 #Ealdgyth 'Swanneck'
}
1064.1.1={
remove_spouse = 131
}
1065.6.6={
add_spouse=123 #Ealdgyth of Mercia
}
1066.9.14 = {
[COLOR="#FF0000"]raise_levies = {
location = 62 # Leicester
force_mult = 1.0
}[/COLOR]
effect = {
spawn_unit = {
province = 62 # Leicester
owner = ROOT
leader = ROOT
match_character = ROOT
match_mult = [COLOR="#FF8C00"]1.0[/COLOR]
}
spawn_unit = {
province = 62 # Leicester
owner = ROOT
leader = 130 # Leofwine
match_character = ROOT
match_mult = [COLOR="#FF8C00"]1.0[/COLOR]
}
spawn_unit = {
province = 62 # Leicester
owner = ROOT
leader = 132 # Gyrth
match_character = ROOT
match_mult = [COLOR="#FF8C00"]1.0[/COLOR]
}
}
}
1066.10.14={
[COLOR="#FF0000"]raise_levies = {
dismiss = yes
location = 62 # Leicester
force_mult = 1.0
}[/COLOR]
death = {
death_reason = death_battle
killer = 140
}
}
}The chronicler Orderic Vitalis wrote of Harold that he "was very tall and handsome, remarkable for his physical strength, his courage and eloquence, his ready jests and acts of valour. But what were these gifts to him without honour, which is the root of all good?"
Harold's ambition and deceit are well-known of course, but I do think it's worth representing him as strong and brave, and he was clearly both of these things. He never shied away from battle, always led from the front and was apparently a very powerful and towering figure. He should clearly be ambitious; he took after his father and certainly had no qualms in taking the crown as soon as Edward died and then raising an army and fighting off two invasions in order to keep it.
I should point out that I've quickly tested this as all three leaders and won as each of them. As Harold, you can choose to defeat either Harald or William and win quite comfortably (particularly if you let Harald attack you across a river and cut-off William's forces before he lands and regroups) but once you face the other it becomes very, very difficult. The trick here is of course to try to defeat one, force peace, hire mercenaries and then defeat the other. This is easier said than done, though, as it will almost certainly involve conquering their own provinces.
Quite simply, the 1.07/8 1066 setup has no element of balance at all, as it relies purely on exploits or the Saxons will lose every time. If you give the Saxons some more troops, however, then you'll be able to at least stand a chance.
Also, as yet another knock to the Saxons, William's forces can now move across the Channel in one go, whereas before they had to come across in two separate trips and so it was possible to defeat the Normans in two or three swift battles on the coast of Kent.
By re-balancing the numbers like this, the scenario becomes more fun because it's possible to win as anyone, but it's also a challenge for everyone. William still has the advantage, though, because the Saxon AI will almost always face the Norwegians first (thereby losing a good chunk of their starting force) and the Normans have a natural advantage thanks to their knight lists and other starting buildings. In a defensive setting, however, Harold's new trait will really help him. This is to represent the famous Saxon shield wall and the fact that the army at Hastings literally fought to the death.
The Normans usually win, followed by the Saxons, as it should be. If you really want a perfect Norman setup then that's exactly what the second 1066 scenario is for.
Oh, and remember that Harald and William both have plenty of cash for mercenaries. Harold has none...
Thanks.
Last edited:
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