Please put in tech research bonuses for years gone by!

[Daelyn75]

I've read this many times, even coming from Secret Master, that it's just not possible to keep tech up to historical levels for the major nations.

In my recent 1.5 game as Japan, I noticed this even more so than before. Tech times have slightly decreased in some areas, but in others there has been some big beefy increases. Take army doctrines as Japan for instance. No longer do we get the focus to reduce them by 10%, nor any -50% bonuses to research a couple of them quicker. When I see it takes 270 + days to research them all, I am looking at everything else being slowed down like never before.

Japan also loses research on several naval techs like they had previously to 1.5.

One solution to this in my opinion would be to reduce techs by 10% per previous year. So if it is 1944 and you are researching 1940 Strategic Bombers, you would get a -40% bonus, if it's 1937 and you research 1936 small arms techs you get a -10% bonus etc.

With nations like Japan being militaristic, they now get a -5% research speed malus. That alone isn't hurting a Japanese game for research, but with now the lack of a whole bunch of research bonuses in many areas, it culminates into something that only leaves them further and further behind.

I think what I am proposing here would really help everyone in the tech areas, especially since with each new DLC we get a few more techs to research. With Waking the Tiger, we now have the special forces techs to research which for me by 1944 I am very hard pressed to even bother with them since I am desperately trying to keep up in other areas.

 

[Agiknight]

Japan's research situation is pretty iffy now, especially since they need everything - planes, navy, land, doctrines for all of them, tech for all of them. They got two new modifiers to research. The "Militarism" national spirit just straight reduces research speed by 5%. You can't get rid of this. Then they also get the spirit "Duplicate Air Efforts" that reduces air research time by 10%.

The intention of "Duplicate Air Efforts" seems to be representing the Army/Navy developing their own planes simultaneously, and there is a focus to get rid of this, but it is so far out of the way that by the time you get it you're already far behind on air research, and there are more important things to take early on. Getting it of it simply removes the malus and doesn't give any bonuses, so it doesn't feel worth it at all. Ironically, this spirit actually makes it kind of impossible for Japan to follow anything close to historical air tech.

You also can't really go Free Trade as Japan, you don't have the resources to spare, while every other major gets to go Free Trade without worry. So they fall even further behind.

 

[Daelyn75]

Japan's research situation is pretty iffy now, especially since they need everything - planes, navy, land, doctrines for all of them, tech for all of them. They got two new modifiers to research. The "Militarism" national spirit just straight reduces research speed by 5%. You can't get rid of this. Then they also get the spirit "Duplicate Air Efforts" that reduces air research time by 10%.

The intention of "Duplicate Air Efforts" seems to be representing the Army/Navy developing their own planes simultaneously, and there is a focus to get rid of this, but it is so far out of the way that by the time you get it you're already far behind on air research, and there are more important things to take early on. Getting it of it simply removes the malus and doesn't give any bonuses, so it doesn't feel worth it at all. Ironically, this spirit actually makes it kind of impossible for Japan to follow anything close to historical air tech.

You also can't really go Free Trade as Japan, you don't have the resources to spare, while every other major gets to go Free Trade without worry. So they fall even further behind.

I had forgotten about the duplicate air efforts malus for Japan. Even so, for all the nations, it's just not possible to reach historical research levels. I'm not sure why PDS has dragged their feet on implementing something that was in previous HOI games and could very easily offset all or most of the behind in research issues all nations face.

 

[billcorr]

• +0.0001 research bonus for each piece of captured land equipment.
• +0.001 research bounus (one-tenth of one percent) for each enemy aircraft shot down over friendly (your) territory.

One solution to this in my opinion would be to reduce techs by 10% per previous year. So if it is 1944 and you are researching 1940 Strategic Bombers, you would get a -40% bonus, if it's 1937 and you research 1936 small arms techs you get a -10% bonus etc.

That makes sense. Sure.

That idea begat the other ideas listed at the top of this post.

Introducing reverse engineering might help close the technology gap between nations.

Reverse engineering bonuses might receive a boost from building a national laboratory dedicated to such endeavors (kind of like Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, USA).

 

[Daelyn75]

• +0.0001 research bonus for each piece of captured land equipment.
• +0.001 research bounus (one-tenth of one percent) for each enemy aircraft shot down over friendly (your) territory.

That makes sense. Sure.

That idea begat the other ideas listed at the top of this post.

Introducing reverse engineering might help close the technology gap between nations.

Reverse engineering bonuses might receive a boost from building a national laboratory dedicated to such endeavors (kind of like Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, USA).

interesting idea there on captured equipment and shot down aircraft. I won't argue with it, it's not like we get tons as it is before a capitulation. But would a capitulation with thousands of guns from a tech you do not have automatically grant you that tech?

 

[billcorr]

But would a capitulation with thousands of guns from a tech you do not have automatically grant you that tech?

Aargh.



Good point.

 

[hkrommel]

interesting idea there on captured equipment and shot down aircraft. I won't argue with it, it's not like we get tons as it is before a capitulation. But would a capitulation with thousands of guns from a tech you do not have automatically grant you that tech?

Aargh.



Good point.

It might make sense to include a cap on how much that'll give you a bonus, perhaps scaled to how complex the tech is. Building a rifle is fairly simple, so a 25% bonus (which should be difficult to reach) would make sense. In capitulation you probably get schematics and stuff so I don't see an issue there. Planes, on the other hand, are much more complicated and often dependent on country-specific design philosophies, so a 10% bonus cap might make more sense.

I guess the issue is that historically nations didn't really copy their enemies very much, at least not in the way that would give research bonuses on the scale we're talking about. "Hey let's slope the armor on our tanks" is hardly revolutionary in 1941, historically it was more of a tradeoff decision since the French had sloped armor very early.

 

[Synicus]

As my avatar suggests, I play Japan often. 1939-1940 is when Japan really starts to fall behind if your trying to research everything, just too many techs and long doctrines gum it all up. If you neglect doctrines, tanks and anti-tank/AA you can keep up (pre cornflakes). With cornflakes, it's hard to even touch equipment and Manchurian build up branches in a timely manor, leaving you even further behind than before. 8 techs just for modern aircraft in 1940 takes nearly a year by itself, then ya get slammed by 1941 production and so on...

I don't think Trench warfare even suits Japan, Mass assault though looks like it was made with Japan in mind! and they should also start with an air doctrine. IMO

I love Cornflakes so far, all problems aside. I think Japan should have to make some sacrifices to keep up, being a newly developed major power.

Focus trees are growing so much, that a more simple solution might be to simply reduce the base 70 days per focus to 60 days.
(Decisions are also eating up tons of power points, lower cost ones seem fine but 150-200 for a decision seems a bit over priced).

Keep up the good work PDX!

 

[him_15]

You simply can't research everything, even as major, you have to make choices.

 

[Synicus]

Sorry, I forgot to add that a yearly tech cost reduction would likely be over powering America.

 

[Daelyn75]

You simply can't research everything, even as major, you have to make choices.

Not everything but at the least be able to reach historical levels. With the last two DLCs, they have been adding even more research.

 

[Uniform764]

You simply can't research everything, even as major, you have to make choices.

That's fine, but even for majors there's issues staying at broadly historical parity.

 

[fabius]

That's fine, but even for majors there's issues staying at broadly historical parity.

Yeah this. Plus there'd still be the choice of what to be slightly ahead with, what to be up to date.
Tech just seems a little too tight right now to play with all the toys.

 

[hkrommel]

Sorry, I forgot to add that a yearly tech cost reduction would likely be over powering America.

How so? They end up at the end of the research tree historically in pretty much everything except MBTs, and historically advanced very quickly through various techs (for example, the M3 Lee was like a medium French Char B1, going from that to the M4 Sherman, one of the best AFVs of the war, was quite the leap).

 

[Synicus]

Being neutral for an extended time as America mean you could easily save the most expensive techs to research a couple years later and have little to no impact on performance since your not in a war. Historically they used a lot of converted factories with no battle exp. The tanks also had to be designed for super mas production and transport across the Atlantic, thus mass steel sent to the Soviets was vital to the war effort.

 

[PanzerMan7]

USA can get some crazy crazy research. -18% from computers (easy to rush computer 1942 with focus). -10% from free trade. -12% from German and Italian scientists. -7%/10% from advisors/designers. Icing on the cake if they get the extra 2% from atomic research.

That's a base of -40% by 1939, with 50% in most places! They may as well get another 20% from a production license. Then again, America!!!!!

 

[Daelyn75]

USA can get some crazy crazy research. -18% from computers (easy to rush computer 1942 with focus). -10% from free trade. -12% from German and Italian scientists. -7%/10% from advisors/designers. Icing on the cake if they get the extra 2% from atomic research.

That's a base of -40% by 1939, with 50% in most places! They may as well get another 20% from a production license. Then again, America!!!!!

If they get such research bonuses then it should be toned down some. Nations like Japan cannot compete with that level. I think with atomic research I was at 15% by around 42. This hardly helps since some techs take even longer to research than before. By 1945 Japan is way, way behind where they should be.

 

[hkrommel]

If they get such research bonuses then it should be toned down some. Nations like Japan cannot compete with that level.

The Japanese shouldn't be able to compete at that level. They should be better than they currently are, but the US is already pretty nerfed in production capacity, they need to be able to have their (quite massive) historical research advantage (along with the Brits and other Allies) as well by the end of the war. The Japanese should (and do) start ahead.

 

[Admiral Piett]

The biggest issue with Japanese research is aircraft. The national spirit slowing it down is cool and all, but the focuses in the air power branch are totally out to lunch. Why do we have a strategic bomber focus (lawl) and nothing for NAVs? The establishment of the Rikko units was a huge deal. Certainly one of the most important features of the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service, which had a larger land-based component than it did naval. The arbitrary distinction between "range" and "agility" is also bizarre. It would have made more sense to have an "army aviation" and "navy aviation" choice instead.

 

[Daelyn75]

The Japanese shouldn't be able to compete at that level. They should be better than they currently are, but the US is already pretty nerfed in production capacity, they need to be able to have their (quite massive) historical research advantage (along with the Brits and other Allies) as well by the end of the war. The Japanese should (and do) start ahead.

Agreed, I didn't mean to imply that all the nations should be the same. If the USA is that overpowered like doing up to -50% on research then i find that overboard.