Please, please revisit the major's focus trees before adding any more new ones

[Agiknight]

Looking at the Hungary and Romania trees in the new DLC is very sad to me as someone who primarily plays USA in multiplayer. I understand this is not a allies or USA DLC, I'm not asking for anything to be changed immediately, nor did I expect any majors changes to come from this patch. Just for the future I think this is something that needs to be heavily considered. I'm mostly going to be talking about the US tree because I think it is the saddest and most uninspired of all the majors, but all of them have issues.

For one, the USA tree is tiny in comparison to these new ones and the ones from Together for Victory. Just compare the recently revealed Hungary tree to the USA tree and see for yourself.

Secondly, the entire middle section of the USA focus tree (the war plans) is completely useless. I have never taken these focuses after my first or second time playing the game because I realized how bad they are. This was compounded by the addition of Continuous Focuses, all of which are more worthwhile than going down the War Plans section of the USA tree. The Pearl Harbor one, in particular, is completely broken. It requires the USA and Japan to coordinate their focuses and for the USA to park a specific amount of boats in Pearl Harbor, it's just way too much to ask when there are easier ways to get into war. I have never seen Pearl Harbor happen in 600 hours of games. (I've played as countries other than the US plenty, so its not just because I don't take the focus when I play USA)

Thirdly, related to the prior point, there is little to no choice in the USA tree. The only choice is whether or not you do the Venezuela war, other than that there is a correct order of focuses for every game. WPA -> Technocracy -> Monroe -> 4x Sphere -> Bureau of Ships / Planes -> Venezuela if you want to -> Get the world tension locked focuses ASAP. Every game. Every. Single. Game. It doesn't matter if your going Fascist or Communist either, the focus path is exactly the same.

As much as I think these two DLCs have been focusing on the wrong thing (adding more focus trees when almost every aspect of the game could use a overhaul), the focus trees that have been added are actually pretty good and interesting IMO. I just wish that the focus trees that the game launched with, the ones for the most important countries, have the same amount of detail and options in them.

 

[Dalwin]

This is something that I asked for as soon as TfV was released. They used a bit of a different philosophy when making the new trees for that DLC, with them being more fleshed out in areas where a change of alignment applied. That aspect at the very least should be carried over to the majors. This different style makes the new trees appear larger than the old ones, though much of the new size is mutually exclusive.

 

[Niko92]

I seem to recall the devs mentioning several times that they plan to revisit the major focus trees at some point.

 

[Drewoid13]

Which is somewhat frustrating because the Soviet and American trees especially look like cheap placeholders. Even Germany and Japan are somewhat sparse compared to the tiv and not d&d trees.

Its almost as if they thought ahead of time that they could put in something cheap and quick now and then remake and resell as a dlc later..... I think that's what annoys me.

Now if they include free major tree revamps with these minor's tree revamps, I'll be a bit happier.

 

[safe-keeper]

They can do both. Add more focus trees while patching the ones we have as they learn. But yes, I agree, the new ones are more exciting than the older ones.

 

[durbal]

Just remove focus trees and create organic diplomatic systems that the AI actually uses.

 

[rcbricker33]

I have been asking for better NFs since last summer. Ever since Fascist USA denounced and then DOWed my Fascist Germany. I am sure that they will re-visit them at sometime in the future. I really like the different branches for changes to alignment.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

Fix the current focus trees first as the major ones are full of errors and many of the focuses needs to be bypassed when the requirements are met, completely agree with OP.

 

[King-Salomon]

For me, it's more how the new foci are working together with the old ones - and there I see some "problems"

for example:
Germany should be able to ask for Sudetenland from whoever controlls it, same for Austria..
what about the "award"-foci Germany has - will they still trigger the hungarian land demands etc

there are lot of "potential conflicts and interactions" with the new foci...

the problems with the Nation Foci atm (especially the old Major Power ones) is that they are not interacting with each other enough - some of the (especially political/land-foci should unlock/block specific foci for other countries in response - there is a lot of potential in this (and a lot of problems I guess) to make this really great (and would make a lot of a difference between how the game plays with and without the DLCs (problem would be of course, what about people who only own DLC 1+3+4 but not 2+5 when a German focus tree is redone to match the new ones )

I see a problem as it would need somewhat of an Ai to select a national focus in response to the actions of other countrys instead of "working through the list" as in the moment - but this NEEDS to be done some day... and will be much more complicated, as more minor national focus trees will be fleshed out.

 

[Agiknight]

I see a problem as it would need somewhat of an Ai to select a national focus in response to the actions of other countrys instead of "working through the list" as in the moment - but this NEEDS to be done some day... and will be much more complicated, as more minor national focus trees will be fleshed out.

This is why it needs to happen sooner rather than later. The more they put it off, and even worse, the more trees they add before doing it, the harder it will be to revamp the old trees.

 

[Brucesim2003]

I seem to recall the devs mentioning several times that they plan to revisit the major focus trees at some point.

That 'some point' should be sooner rather than later. As it stands, most of the major trees only make sense if there is no change in ideology.

 

[Khevenhuller]

That the USA can choose 'Arsenal of Democracy' and yet never give anything meaningful in LL sort of makes a nonsense of it.

On the other hand, i really do like the one for the UK and the Dominions/Raj. They seem to hold together quite well.

K

 

[Agiknight]

That the USA can choose 'Arsenal of Democracy' and yet never give anything meaningful in LL sort of makes a nonsense of it.

On the other hand, i really do like the one for the UK and the Dominions/Raj. They seem to hold together quite well.

K

You can also choose Arsenal of Democracy if you're not democratic.

 

[Broletariat90]

I agree that a lot of the majors do indeed need more detailed focus trees but with an update we get into the slippery slope of how much alternate history is good and what is plausible and what isn't? I feel like regimes which were already well established such as National Socialist Germany. Fascist Italy, the Soviet Union and Empire of Japan should get more detailed focus trees for everything but change in politics. I don't see focuses that make any of those nations fascist, communist or democratic at all historically plausible and will really just kill the world war two feeling of the game. Just my honest opinion that at that point it would get to be to wild to be at all believable. Same goes for the restoration of monarchies in Germany and Russia which would never happen and is just not plausible at all. I don't mean to be rude but I know a lot of people think monarchy is great because apparently paradox fans agree with it politically and it attracts the CK II and EU IV crowd but it doesn't fit in with world war two unless you are talking about the existing monarchies of the period or a monarchy in name without a monarch, like Hungary

 

[CrazyZombie]

I agree that a lot of the majors do indeed need more detailed focus trees but with an update we get into the slippery slope of how much alternate history is good and what is plausible and what isn't? I feel like regimes which were already well established such as National Socialist Germany. Fascist Italy, the Soviet Union and Empire of Japan should get more detailed focus trees for everything but change in politics. I don't see focuses that make any of those nations fascist, communist or democratic at all historically plausible and will really just kill the world war two feeling of the game. Just my honest opinion that at that point it would get to be to wild to be at all believable. Same goes for the restoration of monarchies in Germany and Russia which would never happen and is just not plausible at all. I don't mean to be rude but I know a lot of people think monarchy is great because apparently paradox fans agree with it politically and it attracts the CK II and EU IV crowd but it doesn't fit in with world war two unless you are talking about the existing monarchies of the period or a monarchy in name without a monarch, like Hungary

Communist coups in Commonwealth states also were nearly impossible (and they didn't happen irl after all), still, there are such focus lines.
I don't see the reason, why not to add opportunity for majors to go fully ahistorical path. There is "historical mode" just for people, who prefer railroaded WW2.
"How could it be" is the headache of PDX. They already made such a "realistic" Soviet Union, that people who really know history don't even know what to do - to laugh or to cry. I don't think, that path of democratic or fascist turn in politics will make things worse.

Also, I didn't get your idea - why should monarchy be restored in Russia?

 

[Broletariat90]

Communist coups in Commonwealth states also were nearly impossible (and they didn't happen irl after all), still, there are such focus lines.
I don't see the reason, why not to add opportunity for majors to go fully ahistorical path. There is "historical mode" just for people, who prefer railroaded WW2.
"How could it be" is the headache of PDX. They already made such a "realistic" Soviet Union, that people who really know history don't even know what to do - to laugh or to cry.

I feel like for commonwealth minors, I'll tolerate it but to mess with some of the most established totalitarian states would just ruin the atmosphere. World War Two without Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini or Stalin? Just too wacky. So I'm less picky with minors but when you start messing with the nations and people who made World War Two possible, then you have totally JUMPED THE SHARK. Now if you want to make the trees with more economic and research options maybe some diplomatic as well that's fine. @podcat , please don't jump the shark. :/

 

[Broletariat90]

Communist coups in Commonwealth states also were nearly impossible (and they didn't happen irl after all), still, there are such focus lines.
I don't see the reason, why not to add opportunity for majors to go fully ahistorical path. There is "historical mode" just for people, who prefer railroaded WW2.
"How could it be" is the headache of PDX. They already made such a "realistic" Soviet Union, that people who really know history don't even know what to do - to laugh or to cry. I don't think, that path of democratic or fascist turn in politics will make things worse.

Also, I didn't get your idea - why should monarchy be restored in Russia?

I was saying that restoration of monarchy for Russia and Germany is just too goofy. I was arguing against it.
" Same goes for the restoration of monarchies in Germany and Russia which would never happen and is just not plausible at all. "

 

[CrazyZombie]

I feel like for commonwealth minors, I'll tolerate it but to mess with some of the most established totalitarian states would just ruin the atmosphere. World War Two without Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini or Stalin? Just too wacky. So I'm less picky with minors but when you start messing with the nations and people who made World War Two possible, then you have totally JUMPED THE SHARK. Now if you want to make the trees with more economic and research options maybe some diplomatic as well that's fine. @podcat , please don't jump the shark. :/

Russia will have to take part in WW2, no matter, what regime will be there. It is not all about Stalin - Stalin simply understood, that noone will tolerate Soviet Union long enough, and the next big war will decide - will the Soviet State leave on the map or no. Russia is to big, and as "free world" thinks, too big to own all it's riches alone.
Still, option for a "patriotic" military coup or rise of Russian nationalism as a result of "corenisation" program could be interesting variants.

 

[Sidetrack Nick]

The National Foci are good for historic mode, but when you play sandbox/non-historical, there should be some more generic - but well rounded and filled out - national foci.

 

[CrazyZombie]

The National Foci are good for historic mode, but when you play sandbox/non-historical, there should be some more generic - but well rounded and filled out - national foci.

Agree. All PDX games are well known because they are pretty "sandboxy" and only starting conditions can be considered to be more or less "historical".
Conqured world as one on South American nations in EU4? Possible. Nation of horses in CK2? Not a problem.

So, if it is PDX strategy, where is madness, I came for? Where is Reichstag, blown up with Hitler and most of his supporters, by german communists? Where is american fascism as a last hope to stop communist influence? Where is national uprisings wave, leading to fall of soviet internationalism and rise of hardcore russian nationalism? Where is anti-bolshevik crusade of all "free world" where both democratic and fascist nations as a united front strike Soviet Union in a hope to finally solve "russian question"?