• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

grisamentum

Field Marshal
93 Badges
Feb 29, 2012
6.530
1.202
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
Agree with OP - the Germany in the middle of the HRE is sort of silly now. Just get rid of it and expand the other kingdoms a little more.

It's really dumb to have a Holy Roman Emperor AND a King of Germany in the same game.
 

Hootieleece

Field Marshal
105 Badges
Dec 21, 2002
4.273
842
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Divine Wind
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Yeah,since the game mechanics don't really allow for King of Germany and HRE Emperor to be same office......which it Historically was.I think the best solution would be to dissolve the current Kingdom of Germany and expand the Ahistorical Kingdoms/and Stem Duchies as the Kingdoms.

I'm hoping that there is a HRE DLC in the works that fixes these kinds of problems in the future.........
 

Ruwaard

Imperial Vicar of the HRE
69 Badges
Oct 4, 2010
4.260
767
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
Might come back at this later:).
I didn't have enough time earlier today.
We can debate the details.
Agreed, the kingdom set up and rules and condition for kingdom creation can be debatable. Though personally I don't like too narrow cultural condition; IMHO for instance if a duke of Bohemia & Moravia, he should still be able to become king of Bohemia, but only an emperor, who also is duke of Bohemia & Moravia should be able to create the kingdom of Bohemia. Then again, debatable;)
I don't like titular titles for the same very reason Paradox doesn't (they can be problematic gameplay-wise).
In some cases I tend to prefer titular kingdom, for instance 'resurrected' old kingdoms like Frisia or the former Carolingian sub-kingdoms like Bavaria* and Aquitania. (*=if I would include Bavaria) I used to think the same over small kingdoms like Galicia, Cyprus and Navarra, but at least Navarra IMHO should be de jure. (However in certain map mods, these can become large enough:).) I guess, agree to disagree?;)
You see, by yourself you are placing the 'kingship of the Romans' on a different level, see my second post above.
Not really, the nobility of the German kingdom elects the king of the Romans, who also gains the right on the crowns of Italy and Burgundy. This wasn't unique though, for instance during periods where the kingship of Bohemia was elective, only the Bohemian Estates had the right to vote, so not the Moravian (and later also Lusatian and Silesian) estates..
However I do agree, that even as king of the Romans, the king of the Romans was the liege lord of the king of Bohemia. However in the German kingdom (including or and Lotharingia) he also was their king. I guess, that you could say that position of king of the Romans and German king were really merged. (In German and Dutch sometimes referred to as Roman-German king).
Which would lead me to the conclusion, that the (large, is my preference) German kingdom should perhaps be an uncreatable placeholder as long as the HRE exists (or is still ruled by the German king), similar to how the Byzantine kingdom functioned in the Byzantine Empire in early versions of the game.
This will always be debatable.

Agreed, provinces can be tricky; especially with the changes, which happened historically and the fact that some in game provinces can be composed of more than one historic territory or historic territorial developments***, which can affect the set up at various starting points of the game. Another example could be Istria, coastal Istria was a part of Venice, but inland Istria could instead be a part of Carinthia.
(***= like Steiermark, which in 1066 could belong to Carinthia, but at starts from 1192 it could belong to Austria).

You do not need events for what assimilation does already - what we need is to make that one mechanic better.

Oh right:eek:o, I usually set the timer for the standard assimilation much longer than the game. IMHO the current timer is too one dimensional for me; I would have preferred more conditions and also a decision (maybe available after the timer), which starts an assimilation event, where the estates of the duchy and the kingdom can vote on this matter (the estates should like you, if they break traditional feudal bonds). Anyway I forgot this vanilla feature.:eek:o

That would only be the case if Italy were indeed a de jure part of the HRE, though.

I just mean that as a general fix not letting non-feudal rulers be voted for would probably be an improvement.

Besides, if modders wish to have Italy (or other kingdoms) as part of the HRE then this fix would be invaluable. In fact, you could still have Italy as part of the Empire in vanilla if it's conquered and absorbed.

No one would ever vote for an ecclesiastical leader or doge as Holy Roman Empire. It shouldn't be an option.

EDIT: Yes, this is hardcoded. Paradox would need to do this.

I fully agree!
 
Last edited:

Wallain

Windmill
128 Badges
Jan 11, 2008
3.777
191
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Oh right:eek:o, I usually set the timer for the standard assimilation much longer than the game. IMHO the current timer is too one dimensional for me; I would have preferred more conditions and also a decision (maybe available after the timer), which starts an assimilation event, where the estates of the duchy and the kingdom can vote on this matter (the estates should like you, if they break traditional feudal bonds). Anyway I forgot this vanilla feature.:eek:o
You should post your ideas on how to improve assimilation, that does sound interesting.
 

liamgamer55

Colonel
14 Badges
Oct 16, 2011
1.051
2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Rome Gold
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
You should post your ideas on how to improve assimilation, that does sound interesting.
Ya ruwaard should post more good ideas. I want to put them in my mod.
 

unmerged(75409)

Field Marshal
Apr 30, 2007
7.727
101
[...]

It's really dumb to have a Holy Roman Emperor AND a King of Germany in the same game.
If that's the entire problem, just add a creation condition to all kingdom titles within the HRE (except Bohemia): Ruler must be independent, ruler must be German, ruler must be at peace.

Thereby you'd never see a king of germany, within the HRE. Nor would you see a king of Bavaria, within the HRE. Should a king of Germany or Bavaria get vassalized by the HRE, have an event destroy his title.

Simple fix.