Please pay proper attention to the naval side of combat this time?

[unmerged(53301)]

That aspect was always a little off-kilter in the HOI series. Hopefully this time will be a little more accurate and balanced!

And thanks for making HOI4. I'm quite excited.

 

[sandman2575]

+1 -- Naval combat definitely needs some love in HoI4


..could we also eliminate the "sub divisions" and "destroyer divisions" units? God I hate this -- never sure what it was meant to represent.

1:1 naval unit modelling -- please please please

 

[Cpack]

Naval System, aircombat and weather !!!!!

 

[Cybvep]

Agreed. Naval combat and most importantly, Naval AI.

 

[tomstegmeier]

maybe customships like in east vs west?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Custom ships is probably too ambitious, but yes please on removing transport-submarine-destroyer divisions and giving us individual ships in all classes. Plus, disable CAG duty during bad weather and at night.

 

[Il Moro]

I have only HoI 3 and no expansions, so I don't know if this is already implemented, I hope that with HoI 4 is possible to create HQs for naval units.

 

[Hootieleece]

Make sure the AI Deathstars are made more rare. No more whole Navy in one stack please.

 

[Cpack]

Custom ships is probably too ambitious, but yes please on removing transport-submarine-destroyer divisions and giving us individual ships in all classes. Plus, disable CAG duty during bad weather and at night.

I think the intention was to avoid to handle some kind of 100 destroyers or subs. But I also would like to see single ships

 

[unmerged(53301)]

Make sure the AI Deathstars are made more rare. No more whole Navy in one stack please.

THIS. Ugh. I remember playing HOI2 and destroying nearly the entire royal navy with a few squadrons of naval bombers since the idiots stacked like 30 or so ships in one province. Ugh.

 

[sandman2575]

I think the intention was to avoid to handle some kind of 100 destroyers or subs. But I also would like to see single ships

My problem with SS and DD divisions is that it is entirely unrealistic. At no time did the USA, IJN, or UK or Kriegsmarine have "hundreds" of SS and DD at their disposal, as discrete assets (in the whole aggregate by war's end, perhaps.. but it's not as though these navies were launching flotillas with types of vessels in those numbers... ever.)

 

[Cpack]

My problem with SS and DD divisions is that it is entirely unrealistic. At no time did the USA, IJN, or UK or Kriegsmarine have "hundreds" of SS and DD at their disposal, as discrete assets (in the whole aggregate by war's end, perhaps.. but it's not as though these navies were launching flotillas with types of vessels in those numbers... ever.)

Afaik, the US had nearly a hundred Clemson and Wickes class Destroyers on reserve duty at the beginning.
But also for transport ships. How many ships were necessary to land several divisions including stuff and equipment at D-Day?

But nevertheless, I also support that

 

[sandman2575]

Afaik, the US had nearly a hundred Clemson and Wickes class Destroyers on reserve duty at the beginning.
But also for transport ships. How many ships were necessary to land several divisions including stuff and equipment at D-Day?

But nevertheless, I also support that

Sure, but if we're taking the view that "DD Divisions" in HoI represent -- what? 25, 50 destroyers? -- then USA player should be able to field no more than a couple of "DD Divisions". Reality is that by 1942, USN recognized that it was short of destroyers in the fight against Japan and raced to make up the difference, transferring DDs from the Atlantic to PTO.

1:1 modeling just eliminates the ambiguity, for DD and SS.

Transport ships are another matter, I agree with you. Happy to keep those as 'divisions' or what have you, since AKs and the like were used in very great numbers.

 

[Cpack]

Sure, but if we're taking the view that "DD Divisions" in HoI represent -- what? 25, 50 destroyers? -- then USA player should be able to field no more than a couple of "DD Divisions". Reality is that by 1942, USN recognized that it was short of destroyers in the fight against Japan and raced to make up the difference, transferring DDs from the Atlantic to PTO.
.

I think the subs and destroyers repesent 5 ships in HOI3

 

[sandman2575]

I think the subs and destroyers repesent 5 ships in HOI3

Yeah, the ambiguity of just what a DD or SS "division" is meant to represent is what drives me crazy. And even if a DD Division represents 5 vessels, the HoI "Capital to Screen" ratio needs adjustment, since it was hardly the case that a single capital ship would routinely need (or have the luxury of having) 5 destroyer screens.

Same problem applies to Air units, of course. Never understood what an HoI air unit represented? I thought I recall something like 100 aircraft? If anything, the HoI4 Air war will be even trickier to fix than Naval, and equally in need of improvement. What should a single air unit represent? A squadron? A wing? Given that different nations had different designations ("Luftflotte" for example), it's not an easy problem to solve.

 

[Rancher]

My problem with SS and DD divisions is that it is entirely unrealistic. At no time did the USA, IJN, or UK or Kriegsmarine have "hundreds" of SS and DD at their disposal, as discrete assets (in the whole aggregate by war's end, perhaps.. but it's not as though these navies were launching flotillas with types of vessels in those numbers... ever.)

Perhaps the new construction system may prevent silly builds. If you have limited proguction ability it may cause more decision making in what is built. But, yes a decent naval system would be the icing on the cake. After all the central pivot of WW2 was the naval war

 

[Zaippo]

+1 -- Naval combat definitely needs some love in HoI4


..could we also eliminate the "sub divisions" and "destroyer divisions" units? God I hate this -- never sure what it was meant to represent.

1:1 naval unit modelling -- please please please

Quickly searching, US had more than 8,000 ships during the war. Other site lists number of destroyers in Dec -41 as 171 and subs 112. -44 367 DDs and 230 SS. Not counting frigates, transport ships and auxilary, that is way too many ships to individually assign and organize in fleets, even if the numbers are somewhat off. So I don't see 1:1 modeling happening with HoI3 fleet management.

However I could see it working if DDs and subs would be assigned to flotillas from production lines/storage. And possibility to adjust the flotilla size. Default flotilla size, say 7, could be used in fleets but custom flotillas could be used to escort a single capital vessel or convoy raid in less important areas. Though keeping track of each individual ship would be pain.

 

[Chaplain]

+1

 

[Dalwin]

I for one do not want to have to manage 2-300 individual DDs and subs especially when they'd be spread across a handful of different classes. If it came to that, I'd be wishing that we just had generic naval points instead of ships at all.

 

[mattyh1995]

Quickly searching, US had more than 8,000 ships during the war. Other site lists number of destroyers in Dec -41 as 171 and subs 112. -44 367 DDs and 230 SS. Not counting frigates, transport ships and auxilary, that is way too many ships to individually assign and organize in fleets, even if the numbers are somewhat off. So I don't see 1:1 modeling happening with HoI3 fleet management.

However I could see it working if DDs and subs would be assigned to flotillas from production lines/storage. And possibility to adjust the flotilla size. Default flotilla size, say 7, could be used in fleets but custom flotillas could be used to escort a single capital vessel or convoy raid in less important areas. Though keeping track of each individual ship would be pain.

That idea is great. As long as I can look at a list of ships and see their names in that flotilla too.