Where did I went aggressive? Sorry If I did. Didn't mean to. And why be an anti-byz with such passion if I might ask?
Please Paradox make Byzantium playable and fun, like it was in 1.3 and 1.4.
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Where did I went aggressive? Sorry If I did. Didn't mean to. And why be an anti-byz with such passion if I might ask?
Just tired of "NERF THE TURKS AND BUFF THE BYZZIES" almost every week.
Byzantium is not hard. Just build up insane amounts of galleys, wait until the Ottomans are distracted with the Mamluks or something and declare war and block the straits connecting Constantinople and Anatolia in case a death stack comes for you. It's even better when Poland annexes Moldavia because the Poles likely won't give Crimea or the ottomans military access.
Never said nerf the turks or buff the byzies either...But I can understand your reasoning.
Like any other "doomed" state, the byzzies can pretty much paint the known world with a skilled player at it's helm.
That's pretty much precisely as it should be.
Historical deviation is very much possible, if you're a good enough player.
OPMs creating hindustan.
OPMs creating germany.
Scotland creating GB.
Byzzies taking the med.
All possible, so what's the problem?
That's pretty much precisely as it should be.
Historical deviation is very much possible, if you're a good enough player.
OPMs creating hindustan.
OPMs creating germany.
Scotland creating GB.
Byzzies taking the med.
All possible, so what's the problem?
I started a Byz game last night and I was surprised by how easy it was. By 1451, I'd annexed Trebizond and Cyprus, had Rhodes defect to me, defeated Venice taking Crete, Naxos, and Corfu, and had more galleys than the Ottoman's entire fleet. I didn't even need to take a loan yet.
My mistake though was allying Serbia, Bosnia, and Wallachia. I thought they'd join a war against the Ottomans, but apparently not. I should have CtA during the Venice war and then used the dishonoured call CB to vassalize them.
The biggest problem against the Ottomans is that they're lucky, so they're going to have god generals/admirals right away and beat you in mil tech.
My mistake though was allying Serbia, Bosnia, and Wallachia. I thought they'd join a war against the Ottomans, but apparently not. I should have CtA during the Venice war and then used the dishonoured call CB to vassalize them.
The biggest problem against the Ottomans is that they're lucky, so they're going to have god generals/admirals right away and beat you in mil tech.
As others in the thread have already posted proof, they are very much playable.
You're just not quite skilled enough to pull it off yet. Keep practicing.
No shame in that either, I can't seem to form Hindustan as Delphi, but i'll keep trying till I get it right.
you're probably right. Have barely played any EU since the third, so I'm very rusty.
Well they are playable, it just needs more gamey tactics now. More gamey than usual that is.
My only 'beef' If I can call it that, is with the new systems in AE and coalitions its a bit difficult to go more than the Justinian borders but lucky PU and those heretics in the HRE (spits) can be useful in those cases.
any patch that makes it harder to play byzzies is a good day, means those who play them will have that much more satisfaction breaking the turks
It's not easy, but totally manageable to survive and expand. True, that it depends on luck, skill and standing of the planets. Right now I'm playing with them, and I had to try a couple of times to succeed. My story: attacked ragusa (w/o CB), formed alliance with bosnia and serbia, called Serbia in to the war late, this way I got a casus belli against them. Attack Ser. with Bosnia and vasallize. Formed alliance with Hungary and Poland. I had a huge luck, because the Ottos didn't attack me (i don't know why) before the hungarian and polish truce ended. Instead of the ottoman attack, i started a war against them (~ in 1451), when they fought against Aragon, Genoa, Palatinate, Switzerland and friends. Luckily Aragon took care about their fleet. At the end I took Albania and Thessaly. From then I autoattack when they at war and I don't have a truce.
Right now I'm playing with them, and I had to try a couple of times to succeed. My story: attacked ragusa (w/o CB), formed alliance with bosnia and serbia, called Serbia in to the war late, this way I got a casus belli against them. Attack Ser. with Bosnia and vasallize. Formed alliance with Hungary and Poland. I had a huge luck, because the Ottos didn't attack me (i don't know why) before the hungarian and polish truce ended. Instead of the ottoman attack, i started a war against them (~ in 1451), when they fought against Aragon, Genoa, Palatinate, Switzerland and friends. Luckily Aragon took care about their fleet. At the end I took Albania and Thessaly. From then I autoattack when they at war and I don't have a truce.
My beef with EUIV Byzantium as compared to EU3 Byzantium is that they broke the 'blocking the straits' strategy from EU3. Before as Byzantium one could mint like crazy, create a huge galley fleet, wait until the Ottomans were in Asia, and then attack. Now if you do that the Ottomans will just get military access around the Black Sea and eventually come and kill you.
Which is stupid. Historically 'blocking the straits' was a commonly posited anti-Ottoman tactic. It didn't work because Genoa and Venice, the only local powers with the ships to do it, wouldn't, because they couldn't stand each other.
But instead we have in EUIV the Ottomans marching all around the Black Sea, never mind that none of the countries, not even Crimea, would want Ottoman armies in their territories because they wouldn't be sure they would leave. Even in the 1500s when Russia had eaten Kazan and Astrakhan, the Crimeans still didn't like having Turks in their neighborhood because they found them overbearing neighbors.
Never mind the logistics.
So to counter the historical realistic Byzantine strategy of Eu3 (I never did the 'cycle one galley' strategy) we have a unrealistic, gamey Ottoman counter-strategy that makes it vastly harder to play as Byzantium.
It is a good thing this game is easy to mod.
Which is stupid. Historically 'blocking the straits' was a commonly posited anti-Ottoman tactic. It didn't work because Genoa and Venice, the only local powers with the ships to do it, wouldn't, because they couldn't stand each other.
But instead we have in EUIV the Ottomans marching all around the Black Sea, never mind that none of the countries, not even Crimea, would want Ottoman armies in their territories because they wouldn't be sure they would leave. Even in the 1500s when Russia had eaten Kazan and Astrakhan, the Crimeans still didn't like having Turks in their neighborhood because they found them overbearing neighbors.
Never mind the logistics.
So to counter the historical realistic Byzantine strategy of Eu3 (I never did the 'cycle one galley' strategy) we have a unrealistic, gamey Ottoman counter-strategy that makes it vastly harder to play as Byzantium.
It is a good thing this game is easy to mod.
Then wait long or play M&T mod. The M&T start date is like 1350? or so. So Byzantium has a good starting position
I just hope they tweak it so that it is doable to overcome the Turks.
I am not interested in World Conquest, but I do want the Byzantines to survive
and then slowly rebuild their Empire if the opportunity arises.
Right now the way it is I can barely survive as a 3-4 province nation into the early 1500's.
I also try the same with Burgundy, Granada, The Timurids, Golden Horde, etc. That's the fun
part, helping the historically helpless survive.
I am not interested in World Conquest, but I do want the Byzantines to survive
and then slowly rebuild their Empire if the opportunity arises.
Right now the way it is I can barely survive as a 3-4 province nation into the early 1500's.
I also try the same with Burgundy, Granada, The Timurids, Golden Horde, etc. That's the fun
part, helping the historically helpless survive.
I'm glad to see this absolute catastrophe of winning against AI OE by simply cutting the empire into 2 has come to an end. Now Byzantine games feel more like Granada games. Ok, that's very hard and I think both should be able under very lucky circumstances to recover. This however should not be something which can be done in every game.