Please NO Tetragrammatic Cross for the Byzantines

[FondMemberofSociety]

Guys and girls, I think for aesthetics we should learn to live with mods. I, for one, am not bothered by a Byz with semi-historical mechanics sporting a BBBB.

 

[LordofLight]

I'll admit I'm too used to Tetragrammatic cross flag/coa but that's just because the churches where I live fly the Byzantine flag.

Though I think it's cool having a historically accurate banner and one that perhaps changes with time. Dynamic CoAs is kinda cool even from a super casual perspective.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

I'll admit I'm too used to Tetragrammatic cross flag/coa but that's just because the churches where I live fly the Byzantine flag.

Though I think it's cool having a historically accurate banner and one that perhaps changes with time. Dynamic CoAs is kinda cool even from a super casual perspective.

I would like dynamic CoAs. In fact, I don't think they'd be difficult to implement, other Paradox games do that already.

There's plenty of places where they'd fit well, also. I'd argue most tags before 1066 would benefit from this. After all, the French coat of arms are an evolution of the Capetian sigil and colours, blue and gold. Had another family become Kings of the Franks before the actual invention of heraldry, having a system with more or less randomised CoAs which change colour depending on the overlord would be historically accurate.

If, instead of Hugh Capet, someone else (maybe even the Merovingians themselves centered around Picardie and Flanders) retain the throne of France, the colour would change. Then, advancing from then on, you'd see (I'm making this up now) the three bees, gold on red, instead of the three lillies, gold on blue. Maybe then the Duke of Normandy, or whoever becomes the big adversary to royal control in France (could be Normandy, Tolouse, Aquitaine, Provence, Bretagne...) would need to swich to blue (or some other colour). Gold lion on blue. Or black on white.

I don't think they'll go there. The previews showing the Anglo Saxon kings with a wyvern probably have them as Kings of the Angles or an amalgamation of titular titles.

 

[LordofLight]

At the end of the day it comes down to it falling into attention to detail. And honestly games that put a lot of attention to detail tend to shine the most.

Doesn't HoI4 have flags that change based on certain factors? Ive seen mods that add insane variety to flags. One for each ideology and they [mods] add a ton more ideologies. It's not a big thing to have flags change. But its attention to detail that really does add a lot in that respect.

And at the end of the day its cool. Guess more work for the CoA art team.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I would like dynamic CoAs. In fact, I don't think they'd be difficult to implement, other Paradox games do that already.

There's plenty of places where they'd fit well, also. I'd argue most tags before 1066 would benefit from this. After all, the French coat of arms are an evolution of the Capetian sigil and colours, blue and gold. Had another family become Kings of the Franks before the actual invention of heraldry, having a system with more or less randomised CoAs which change colour depending on the overlord would be historically accurate.

If, instead of Hugh Capet, someone else (maybe even the Merovingians themselves centered around Picardie and Flanders) retain the throne of France, the colour would change. Then, advancing from then on, you'd see (I'm making this up now) the three bees, gold on red, instead of the three lillies, gold on blue. Maybe then the Duke of Normandy, or whoever becomes the big adversary to royal control in France (could be Normandy, Tolouse, Aquitaine, Provence, Bretagne...) would need to swich to blue (or some other colour). Gold lion on blue. Or black on white.

I don't think they'll go there. The previews showing the Anglo Saxon kings with a wyvern probably have them as Kings of the Angles or an amalgamation of titular titles.

If I'm not mistaken, the most difficult part about implementing dynamic CoAs is tangentially related to why interregnums are impossible - all existing titles must have a holder under the game engine.

Now, how many titles are there again ... ?

Of course, we could take from the example you stated and simplify things, say only kingdoms and empires have dynamic CoA. But you know, maybe it is easier to mod it in, since this cutoff is quite arbitrary.

 

[Ruwaard]

If I'm not mistaken, the most difficult part about implementing dynamic CoAs is tangentially related to why interregnums are impossible - all existing titles must have a holder under the game engine.

Now, how many titles are there again ... ?

Of course, we could take from the example you stated and simplify things, say only kingdoms and empires have dynamic CoA. But you know, maybe it is easier to mod it in, since this cutoff is quite arbitrary.

Well each title will need a default fallback option. Some like England might need two, which will need to be determined by date (in this case 1066), so an Anglo-Saxon and an Anglo-Norman one.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Well each title will need a default fallback option. Some like England might need two, which will need to be determined by date (in this case 1066), so an Anglo-Saxon and an Anglo-Norman one.

Maybe a fixed CoA for a native culture holder, and a system for dynamic forming based on the charges and colors of the conqueror's culture. With a smattering of event-related fixed flags like the KoJ.

 

[Byzantium2000]

Now this is just a Taunt.... Someone got a Historical doubled Headed Eagle and it’s not the Bboys

At this point it’s just brand recognition to Keep 4B Tetra, am I wrong?



Not admitting defeat but I hereby Request a reserved seat for any Chi Rho Mods to compesenste the inevitable wallow of sadness that is to come.

 

[2333Vladimir]

Well said.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Yes, I guess it all comes down to what people are used to. I'd rather use these games to educate, but every time I say so, I get a storm of "respectfully disagree" crosses. Too many people think games can't teach anything.

 

[Vokasak]

Yes, I guess it all comes down to what people are used to. I'd rather use these games to educate, but every time I say so, I get a storm of "respectfully disagree" crosses. Too many people think games can't teach anything.

Nobody thinks that games can't teach anything, but it is a matter of priorities. CK2 is an entertainment product first and an educational product second (Or like, fifth). You can only teach people who show up to be taught something. If people are buying a game on a game-selling platform and then suddenly find that the game makes a bunch of weird decisions (from a gameplay point of view) in an effort to educate, they're going to rightfully be pretty upset.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Nobody thinks that games can't teach anything, but it is a matter of priorities. CK2 is an entertainment product first and an educational product second (Or like, fifth). You can only teach people who show up to be taught something. If people are buying a game on a game-selling platform and then suddenly find that the game makes a bunch of weird decisions (from a gameplay point of view) in an effort to educate, they're going to rightfully be pretty upset.

No one is arguing to make the educational aspect of it come first. We've discussed this already, you and I. Cosmetic things (like the correct flags, idea trees that are both fun and reflect historical change, flavour text) don't affect gameplay, but they do affect the way people think about those historical eras.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

No one is arguing to make the educational aspect of it come first. We've discussed this already, you and I. Cosmetic things (like the correct flags, idea trees that are both fun and reflect historical change, flavour text) don't affect gameplay, but they do affect the way people think about those historical eras.

And, being a historical game, helps with immersion, which is an important aspect of a history game. If Paradox doesn't bother, they would never have diversified the feudal contract after ... over-enthusiastic community feedback.

 

[Jarolleon]

I get what you're saying but your comparison isn't right.
In CK3 you also get to play the ERE in the 1200s and the 1300s. Maybe there are even start dates later than 1066.

And we have to put this in perspective. Almost all countries on the map changed their "flag" (when they even had one) during the very long timeline of the game. I agree that it would be cool if all flags changed accordingly to the time and dynasty in power.
However let's be real, this is probably not going to happen, so the devs have to find flags that belong to the appropriate era. And the ERE flag does.
Now since it's one of the most important countries on the map it could certainly get a special treatment.

It would be nice if all big kingdoms and empires had more appropriate flags depending on the era and dynasty, and also depending on religion and/or culture I guess, because why not.

Gotta love ck2 England using the Norman flag even if you stay Anglo-Saxon and beat back the Normans.

 

[Byzantium2000]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ckiii-dev-diary-28-art-focus.1393627/unread

Given how a Major part of this diary was how much more historical everything is.......

Breh

England got 3 flags

That’s all I have to contribute today lol.

 

[Colin]

@Byzantium2000

The Seljuk eagle was a real thing, though...

 

[Byzantium2000]

@Byzantium2000

The Seljuk eagle was a real thing, though...

Oh I Know I’m just joking how the Seljuks The Enternal Byzantine rival got a Double Headed Eagle and how every country and their successor/predecessor got more historical symbols except the Byzantines.

I am Actually Glad the Seljuks got the 2 Eagles instead of the Generic Muslim flag they had in Ck2.