I know this is probably a typo, but it will be interesting to be able to absorb local clergy into your faith's religious structure. The Romans adopted Greek and Celtic Pantheons after all - such a practice could be adapted some way ... I will have to think about this.
Please NO Tetragrammatic Cross for the Byzantines
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Ha! It was a typo, but one that made my post more accurate. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
Out of curiosity did they manage to get them in the aftermath of Odoacer or were they whatever Julius Nepos had on hand?
The Senate(with Odoacer' s consent) sent them to Emperor Zeno after Romulus was deposed. Odoacer recognized Both Nepos and Zeno and then just Zeno after the death of Nepos in 480. Zeno wanted Odoacer to recognize Nepos as Western Emperor but after his death gave Dalmatia to Odoacer and accepted his new role as Singular Emperor.
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Honestly I don’t know if it ever “replaced” the Single Headed Eagle But all Evidence points to Andronikos Palaiologos as the First Emperor to Use the Double Headed Eagle and 4Bs Tetragrammatic Cross as Imperial Symbols(with 4Bs being the “Country Flag”). Even Michael Palaiologos was still rocking single headed eagles on his cushions in manuscripts lol.
Indeed. Zeno practically abolished the title of western Roman emperor, first with the the partial agreement with Odoacer and then support from Theodoric.
Zeno was hailed as the sole emperor of Rome (ending the official diarchy permanently) and was the lone power again (for the first time since Theodosius), Theodoric gained numerous high titles (including Consul of Rome and Magister Militum Praesentalis) and ruled Italy as king of Ostrogoths.
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Fun Fact: Hellenism was alive and well in the tiny Mani Peninsula hundreds of years after the rise of Christianity in Greece. This was possible thanks largely to geography, as the peninsula is a highland that was for all practical reasoning, inaccessible other than via boat. As you would expect, the Maniots turned to piracy, and would continue there in isolation until efforts to convert them were made in the 11th and 12th centuries.
Though I suppose the peninsula is too small to warrant its own county (or barony?) in game.
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Yeah, you're right. The suppression of Christianity had started before the Shimabara Rebellion, though it intensified after it occurred. Still, Christianity did experience an early period of rapid growth and popularity in Japan before being successfully suppressed by the government, which shows that the rise of Christianity in a state isn't inevitable even if it manages to take off.
True, though this could be seen as a limitation of the game engine. Doing what CK2 did and having a county with a pagan population but with a Christian administration might be the only way to represent the existence of this pagan community in-game.
Being an island nation and their policy of sakoku probably helped a lot. Easier to stamp something out if you can keep it from getting back in, too. (Not that they were completely isolated, but they did a very good job of regulating what came in.)
There are plenty of examples of Christianity being stamped out by non supportive governments, so anyone saying the faith's rise is/was inevitable is being a little silly. Indeed, the fact that it wasn't inevitable makes its victory in the Roman Empire (and then again in the countries that came after Rome) even more impressive. It's quite easy to see why Christians find the whole thing miraculous.
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Interestingly enough, if you look at world history, the successful spread of Christianity mostly go west. From middle east to Europe, to the new world, to East Asia. Recent decades it has begun to spread quite successfully in China, and the last decade or so Iran has seen a virtual revival. Soon it's gone full circle.
Interestingly enough, if you look at world history, the successful spread of Christianity mostly go west. From middle east to Europe, to the new world, to East Asia. Recent decades it has begun to spread quite successfully in China, and the last decade or so Iran has seen a virtual revival. Soon it's gone full circle.
Can you share the source about Christianity in Iran? It's usually so hard for agencies to get demographic data out of that country.
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It sadly does. I don’t know the details of the internal structure of PDS and their financial position but most likely they have limited development resources (if PDS has unlimited workforce and money, I want my Vic3 by the end of April
That's why they are (and have been since HOI4 at least) focusing on plausibility rather than realism and instead of building bespoke events for each designing a simulation that covers all kinds of religions/faiths. I'm personally in favor of this more flexible system, but I'm also a huge fan of simulation dynamics in general ("ooh, so what happens if I touch this part?"). Obviously, this all comes at the cost of enjoyability for those who want to replay history rather than craft their own, which also has been a major draw especially for older Paradox games, so I suppose mileage definitely varies here.
It should be a double headed eagle, which is what appears in most, if not, all, the armorials of the Middle Ages.
The Chi Rho is a well known symbol of the Christian Roman Empire, but it was not what was used explicitly on coats of arms. Even if they were made in the West.
The Chi Rho is a well known symbol of the Christian Roman Empire, but it was not what was used explicitly on coats of arms. Even if they were made in the West.
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Dang what happened to the last like 8 Posts?
The Double Headed Eagle is also not of Byzantine origin and was used by Everyone and their mothers including the Seljuks.
Coat of Arms themselves are outside our period, The Byzantine Empire Of Ck3 did not use them and the actual Empire never did.
The Chi Rho however was not only a Battle Standard That was also used as the Emperors Banner at times but a common sysmbol on furnitures, documents, Paintings and overall mundane aspects of Byzantine Society.
9th to 12th century Chi Rho Signet Ring used as a symbol on wax seals
Gonna be honest I don’t know what this would actually be called.
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The Double Headed Eagle has the Same introduction time 200 years outside our start as the 4Bs Cross, Only the 4Bs was more widespread in use at a county level but it’s Like swapping one out of period Flag with another.
The Double Headed Eagle is also not of Byzantine origin and was used by Everyone and their mothers including the Seljuks.
Coat of Arms themselves are outside our period, The Byzantine Empire Of Ck3 did not use them and the actual Empire never did.
The Chi Rho however was not only a Battle Standard That was also used as the Emperors Banner at times but a common sysmbol on furnitures, documents, Paintings and overall mundane aspects of Byzantine Society.
9th to 12th century Chi Rho Signet Ring used as a symbol on wax seals
Gonna be honest I don’t know what this would actually be called.
Lead Seal
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I'm not going to argue that it was an ancient symbol, nor that it was used in 1066, but if we're drawing coats of arms, the only sure coat of arms we have of the Byzantine Emperor is the eagle, and then the tetragrammatical cross. Are they late? Sure, but the attributed arms of the Heptarchy are made up, we have no idea what real symbol half the world used, and in any case William the Conqueror should definitely not be sporting three lions passant.
By 1270, as the Palaeologues became Emperors, the Tetragrammaton was quickly seen as the symbol of the Empire from abroad. The Wignberger Roll, dated 1270, shows this, and most armorials show the tetrasgrammaton more often than they show an eagle
If the game doesn't have any later dates than 1066, then I'd side with you, but for a whole 1066-1453 run, I'd go with the tetragrammaton. I don't mind using the Chi Rho, but if it comes within a coat-of-arms frame, I'd rather see a coat of arms.
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I mean it doesn’t have any start dates past 1066. And the Nicean Empire doesn’t exist in 1066 so to recreate the situation which the 4Bs could appear isn’t even possible. The Byzantine Roman Empire Of 395-1204 did not use Coat Arms or Heraldry and that’s the Empire your playing in 867/1066 not Palaiologos Nicaea.
The Byzantine Empire isn’t a western Feudal realm I don’t see why cost of Arms is a must when it had multiple widespread symbols that fulfilled the same purpose.
I Equate it to Wanting England in EU4 to start with the Union Jack . Can you play until GB is formed yeah, does it mean GB is gonna be formed and the flag used, no.
And just saying the Latin Empire also Used Both the 2 Headed Eagle and a 4B like Cross so I gotta say I’d rather not 2 Empires with the same flag be right next to each other like CK2. But of course Since it’s 1066 Nicaea or the Latin Empire will not Form.
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It's not really the same, because GB is already a separate tag. A better parallel would be giving Spain the cross of Burgundy at game start, a flag which makes no sense at all if the Burgundian Inheritance doesn't fall to <Dijon to France and the rest of the Habsburgs>, and then Juana marries Philip of Habsburg, producing Charles V. Even if it was the most widely recognised war banner of Spain between the 1550's and the end of the game.
So yeah, I agree, the Chi Rho may be a good compromise.
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