Please make the game mechanics discoverable through the interface

[metatoaster]

I liked Hearts of Iron 2 (/AoD) and 3 (to the extent I've played it), but the games would've been easier to learn with proper use of tooltips and summary screens. And even once you understand most mechanics, the UI doesn't expose some of the stuff that's going on. To this day I find it very hard to, say, gauge the effects of my u-boat convoy raiding as Germany in HoI2.

This type of game really lives or dies through its interface, and I think that any mechanic that's not visible to the player in some way is wasted development time.

Hopefully you guys are looking at the whole HoI series and looking at what worked and what didn't in each game. In HoI3 I missed the list of ongoing battles with progress indicators from HoI2. Combined with the "all arrows on" view it made it easy to watch over both battle progress and units marching at the same time.

 

[Dan1109]

Agreed. Quite the hypocrisy, but I don't want to have to read the forums every day for years AFTER I buy the game, to figure it out...nor look for wikis or read 3rd party documentation....

Why did HOI, HOI2, and HOI3 have a harsh learning curve, actually the harshest of any game I have ever played? Crap documentation. Ya know paradox, your customers can read....but can you write????

 

[BlitzWarfare]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. Could you give us an example?

If you mouse over a value it gives you a tooltip that displays what it is or does.
I am also not sure what you mean with battle indicators. If you mean the things that show how far a battle has progressed and who is attacking/defending then you are either need glasses or a new graphics card because these show up on the map, battle screen and the small menu on the right (if enabled of course).
While we don't have those marching arrows on all the time, and frankly speaking I don't want a clustered screen full of arrows, you can easily get them by selecting your units or the highest hq.

U-boat results can be tracked via the strategic warfare screen or the supply map mode I believe. Mousing over the explosion symbols shows you how many ships/convoys have been sunk and where your own subs were sunk/attacked.

Mind that the above is all for HOI3

edit: If you guys are looking of the type of things that say "click here to select all units" or when you mouse over the production tab it says "click here if you want to produce units" then I think you need to find another game.
A better tutorial would fix those problems.

 

[Dan1109]

Here are some explicit examples of in game info needed

1. What is my division's softness? That needs to be added, like the CA bonus value given on the white tank icon was added in SF.
2. Port strike tech level number is attached to said CAG - yes, looks nice and neat, but what does Level 1941 mean? I hover mouse over said text, and voila, "port strike efficiency +20%". Because when I go to the tech level, it shows me what it WILL be if I research the next tech level of port strike, and then I have to manually figure out how much bonus each tech level gives me...quite an arse pain.
3. Just more and more data - but a) make it scalable, like a game option to show detail - arcade for colors, pro for absolute numbers. B) be able to adjust the time factor when hovering the mouse - I am sure some people hate the tooltips, because they can happen every time you move he mouse - have options for display depth and how long to hold mouse over
4. I want to somewhere be able to see EVER SINGLE MODIFIER that is tied to a specific unit. HOI3 got close, but not perfect. Something missed from HOI2 was the screen which showed every single modifier. And this ties into the OP's comment:

I see a modifier on the new HOI4 global tech modifier page (I wish for one, like in HOI2) It's called combined_arms_modifier_for_infantry. Ok, the in game can remove the _ characters but that is the variable name. One might ask "what the heck does that do". Click on it, and it gives a help screen describing the mechanics of land combat, indexed to the combined arms portion. It also describes all techs affecting this modifier. These things I only learned from the wiki and forums in HOi3. A users new to HOI should not have to go through that pain. A user should not have to refer to out of game documentation for this type of info. When asking a question like "what does Installation Strike do and how can I Improve it?", the answer should be found IN the game. If they change the formula, then the in game documentation needs to be changed as well.

 

[BlitzWarfare]

1) I am 99.9% sure that you can see it in the production screen. Softness is a modifier that decides the number of hard and soft attacks a unit gets.
2) If you want to know a units current techs you select it and (double-) click it on the left screen. You should get a full detailed page with all techs, doctrines, etc.
3)More of a personal preference so won't comment on this.
4) See 2

I don't feel they should show everything in game. I maybe look up once what combined arms modifier is but then I never look at it again.
I am also sure this has a performance reason. The more you have in game, the more it has to load.
No need to put all detailed info in there.

 

[podcat]

I think that any mechanic that's not visible to the player in some way is wasted development time.

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

 

[sgt.stickybomb]

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

what line was it on in HOI3 document?

 

[208]

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

That would be a fascinating document to see I'm sure

 

[niallmcfc]

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

... that you'll be posting on the forums when it's released!

Right?

 

[demanvanwezel]

I would like to say that I really like what I saw in the division planner

in hoi3 you couldn't easily see how each division would perform in which terrain but in the division planner shown you look at the +/- of the divisions in which terrain and I guess you can see the total modifiers if you mouse over the icon
one thing though make the plains icon greenish, I first mistook it for dessert

 

[Dan1109]

1) I am 99.9% sure that you can see it in the production screen. Softness is a modifier that decides the number of hard and soft attacks a unit gets.
2) If you want to know a units current techs you select it and (double-) click it on the left screen. You should get a full detailed page with all techs, doctrines, etc.
3)More of a personal preference so won't comment on this.
4) See 2

I don't feel they should show everything in game. I maybe look up once what combined arms modifier is but then I never look at it again.
I am also sure this has a performance reason. The more you have in game, the more it has to load.
No need to put all detailed info in there.

Well, I guess that means you are not a die hard, but many of us are. Understanding the game, mechanics, and what is going on, at all times, is a key to winning on harder levels. Yes, production screen - of course, but I have to BUILD my division (or hope I kept it in a template) to check. Concerning techs - yes, you see every tech that unit is bound to - but you don't see the effect. For that you have to go to the tech windows figure out how much effect per level (tech window for some silly reason always showed the net effects IF you research the next level). Yes, this is a personal preference, shared by many...as I am sure there are some non die-hards that play on normal or easy level, with AI, and automate most things, just to watch WW2 with a handful of choices.....to quote Neo, "The problem is CHOiCE", we all should have it, that's the answer.

 

[fabius]

....I think that any mechanic that's not visible to the player in some way is wasted development time.
.

A lot of truth in that.

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

And that is awesome news.

 

[Dan1109]

I know exactly what a design document is and when written well, it translates VERY easily to customer documentation. Sounds like everything is being opened up in HOI4! Thank you!! This means we can also help figure out your defects after release, if you have any . Back in HOI2 and 3 daily forum reading after it's "General release", I got so sick of people relaying historical minutia trying to explain why the game was behaving such a way. With this detail, we can prove if it's the game, or the player that is broken! Thank you!!

 

[Kagernaut]

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

Brilliant

 

[Poh]

if you look at EUIV its a huge improvement compared to EUIII in this regard so i assume we can expect something similar and from what podcat says earlier in the thread it seems like its also a major focus.

 

[Dan1109]

Well heck, I may just go buy EU4 while I wait!

 

[Dinglehoff]

you'll be happy to know this is literally the 4th line of the main hoi4 design document.

Can we see that document?

 

[Dan1109]

Uh, those happen to ALWAYS be proprietary...and with good reason.

 

[Adonnus]

It would be very helpful to have a small block of text that explains the function of a certain game mechanic when you mouse over it for at least a second.

 

[Sky_WKing]

So is the answer to "will there be an in-game encyclopedia" still negative?