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yourworstnightm said:
*RECREATION* of Navarra has nothing to do with historical accuracy.
In the beginning, Navarra is in the game - and if it will be a stable kingdom, then it will remain in the game, and be perfectly historically accurate.
And an ahistorically unstable Navarra that gets conquered by muslims is a completely different issue - I doubt that any count re-counquering these lands would gain a status allowing him to vassalize large dukes. It would be added to someones title-list, but it won't give any real power to the new (ahistorical) conqueror, and thus shouldn't be reflected in-game.
I know this won't make me popular with some people, but I agree with the decision to have Navarra be non-recreatable and the reasoning of the poster above. There are numerous other possible "small kingdoms", yet none of them are included as creatable in the game either. Only kingdoms of a certain size should really be included.
As for kingdom requirements in Iberia, perhaps the southern half or so of the peninsula should be "none" territory so that it becomes easier to create Portugal, Castille and Aragon (and León)?
As for kingdom requirements in Iberia, perhaps the southern half or so of the peninsula should be "none" territory so that it becomes easier to create Portugal, Castille and Aragon (and León)?
Some pointers here:
Navarra as a kingdom (recreatable) makes far more sense than Leon. Yes, it was smaller, but Navarra emerged from a unique, Basque, culture. Leon, on the other hand, altough initaly separated by language was eventually "incorporated" without much trouble into Castille (forming the kingdom of Castille-Leon).
Another thing regading Portugal: Portugal didn't arise with the "blessing" of Castille, far from it. The origin of Portugal lies in the "Portuguese county" (which was the size of the current Duchy of Braganza) and Afonso I, after defeating the Galician nobility's interest in merging the county into galicia, thus recreating the kingdom of Galicia, expanded southwards, eventually declaring himself (against Castille-Leon) King and a vassal to the Pope.
Iberia should have been set with most of the southern part as "non-belonging" Duchies and just the "core" counties as counting to the minimum number to form a new kingdom.
As on CKII, I expect to see a distinciton between "core provincies" in a country and "acessory" provinces, which could be disputed between two kingdoms.
Navarra as a kingdom (recreatable) makes far more sense than Leon. Yes, it was smaller, but Navarra emerged from a unique, Basque, culture. Leon, on the other hand, altough initaly separated by language was eventually "incorporated" without much trouble into Castille (forming the kingdom of Castille-Leon).
Another thing regading Portugal: Portugal didn't arise with the "blessing" of Castille, far from it. The origin of Portugal lies in the "Portuguese county" (which was the size of the current Duchy of Braganza) and Afonso I, after defeating the Galician nobility's interest in merging the county into galicia, thus recreating the kingdom of Galicia, expanded southwards, eventually declaring himself (against Castille-Leon) King and a vassal to the Pope.
Iberia should have been set with most of the southern part as "non-belonging" Duchies and just the "core" counties as counting to the minimum number to form a new kingdom.
As on CKII, I expect to see a distinciton between "core provincies" in a country and "acessory" provinces, which could be disputed between two kingdoms.
Is it even possible to have non area, if Navarra is not recreatable I don't see a point having Aragon, Castile or Leon recreatable either, they're also small kingdoms. Maybe we take away all recreatability of iberian kingdom- titles to stop french dukes from becoming king...
Yes, it is possible to not have a county/duchy be part of a kingdom. Look at Brittany and Finland.
Aragon, 19 counties (12 to create the title)
Castille, 17 counties (11 to create the title)
Léon, 12 counties (7 to create the title)
Portugal, 11 counties (7 to create the title)
If you as a duke can conquer 7 provinces to create a kingtitle and as a duke you problably already have 3 or 4 counties in your realm outside of Spain. That would mean you have at least 10 counties when you declare yourself king. I find that a very reasonable size for a kingdom.
Maybe Castille and Leon could me merged. But I wouldn't suggest that.
Aragon, 19 counties (12 to create the title)
Castille, 17 counties (11 to create the title)
Léon, 12 counties (7 to create the title)
Portugal, 11 counties (7 to create the title)
If you as a duke can conquer 7 provinces to create a kingtitle and as a duke you problably already have 3 or 4 counties in your realm outside of Spain. That would mean you have at least 10 counties when you declare yourself king. I find that a very reasonable size for a kingdom.
Maybe Castille and Leon could me merged. But I wouldn't suggest that.
Its not inconcievable as long as Leon, like Navarra, keeps its status as Kingdom. But i'd really only do this if Andalusia kingdom was replaced by it since it would still give all the remaining major kingdoms a descent size to achieve (since the new smallest would be portugal and my idea would only take 1 province from them, still leaving them with a minimum of 7 needed.Veldmaarschalk said:Maybe Castille and Leon could me merged. But I wouldn't suggest that.
This of course i know won't happen in 1.05
I like this idea of shifting things around to create a kingdom in South Iberia myself.
As for Navarra, since it's a uniquely Basque title, I think it should have the ability to be recreated, but maybe for gameplay balance the noble in question would have to be of Basque heritage? (If there's a way to write an event to check that of course)
Just a quick idea I'm throwing up for consideration before I head to work
As for Navarra, since it's a uniquely Basque title, I think it should have the ability to be recreated, but maybe for gameplay balance the noble in question would have to be of Basque heritage? (If there's a way to write an event to check that of course)
Just a quick idea I'm throwing up for consideration before I head to work
Neibla.Carlos Duarte said:
Considering Andalusia would conisits of what is portugal that is south of the Duera this is a big compromise that doesn't hurt anything really. You'd still need 7 provinces to create or usurp portugal and it would still flow at roughly the same borders and Neilbla wasn't captured until very near the end anyways.
I think Lean and Castille should remain seperate king titles. They were only unified by inheritance later in the era I believe.
Actually they were unified a first time by Sancho de Castille who forced his brothers Sancho and Garcia into exile. Then Sancho was killed mysteriously while besieging Zamora (held by Urraca, not Elvira btw) in 1072. Sancho then unified Castille, Leon and Galicia (having Garcia imprisoned when he tried to come back).GoblinCookie said:
Galicia never existed ever again, Leon was independant once again between 1157 and 1217.
This is how it happened: Alfonso VII the Emperor (elected but never crowned by the Pope), king of Castille died in 1157 and divided his kingdom between his two sons, "recreating" Leon for the second. Two or three generations later in 1217, the king of Castille died without heirs and the king of Leon, who btw had married his sister, then reunited the two crowns for ever.GoblinCookie said:
So my point is that Leon did exist until the beginning of thirteenth century and should remain (as well as Navarra
) as a recreatable title.
Basically none of the CK Iberian christian kingdoms except Galicia ever disappeared in real life, so trying to think what would have happened if Moslems would have ran over the place is speculation. Only Portugal was created during CK time period too, so there's no cause to have them as easy to recreate. Except player's need to have familiar kingdoms there.
The title wasn't recreated, it was granted.Third Angel said:This is how it happened: Alfonso VII the Emperor (elected but never crowned by the Pope), king of Castille died in 1157 and divided his kingdom between his two sons, "recreating" Leon for the second. Two or three generations later in 1217, the king of Castille died without heirs and the king of Leon, who btw had married his sister, then reunited the two crowns for ever.
So my point is that Leon did exist until the beginning of thirteenth century and should remain (as well as Navarra
As far as Navarra is concerned though, I think it should be "none" territory rather than what it is now.
Ummm why not jump a little bit more in that direction and make Navarra part of well the kingdom of Navarra perhaps?
Because I agree with the reasons given why it shouldn't be recreatable, while I also think that it makes no sense to include that territory in the requirements to (re)create any of the other Iberian kingdoms.GoblinCookie said:Ummm why not jump a little bit more in that direction and make Navarra part of well the kingdom of Navarra perhaps?