Please let overlord choose vassal's ideas groups. AI decisions really annoy.

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Zak Preston

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Hello!

I've been annoyed recently by stupidity of my vassal's choices in my recent mp game:

As Byzantine Empire I vassalized Circassia and fed them with Caucasian provinces. Guess what first Idea Set did they take? MARITIME! Poor small Circassia with a single coastal province wanted to dominate the Black Sea trade! They didn't take Religious or Defensive as their first choice. Later on they took Humanism ideas as 4th or 5th set, which has buggered me off completely, since for centuries they stayed in the same borders, all cultures were accepted and the only trouble they had were the conversion of some Muslim provinces.


In my another games:
  • Armenian released vassal took Espionage Ideas as their first choice.
  • Byzantium vassal took Maritime ideas.
  • Brittany took Religious ideas as their second choice.
  • Navarra (had been severely fed) didn't take colonization ideas until late game.

Especially annoying those choices become when you release a vassal you are going to play with.
Honestly, I don't think that the choosing ideas for vassals will break the game. but it could add so much depth to the game. For example France vassalizes Brittany and lets them colonize instead of annexing or Austria creates a militaristic vassal from Serbia against Ottoman threat.

I think it would be fair that overlord had to spend it's MP to make vassals take ideas he wants.
 
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DicRoNero

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Everyone will have a bunch of *** colonizing for them with Exploration/Expansion, these are far more useful picks than anything a general minorish vassal can ever take. Sounds OP.
 
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Zak Preston

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Everyone will have a bunch of *** colonizing for them with Exploration/Expansion, these are far more useful picks than anything a general minorish vassal can ever take. Sounds OP.

Some restraining mechanisms could be added to prevent colonizing vassals abuse, but even without them it would be much better than now.
 
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tfjs

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They are vassals, you shouldn't have complete control of them (too OP, unrealistic, too easy, it is possible to play as a vassal and become independent and this would harm that). Maybe this could work for client states though?
 
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Zak Preston

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They are vassals, you shouldn't have complete control of them (too OP, unrealistic, too easy, it is possible to play as a vassal and become independent and this would harm that). Maybe this could work for client states though?

Okay, you want to play as released vassal. What's bad if you could assign them the ideas you wanted?
 
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veidt

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100% agree here. This is one of those things that just promote learning occult knowledge such as idea picks for AI nations. At least show us future picks, because there's no point to hide them from new players, while experienced ones will still know which idea specific vassal will pick.
 
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grommile

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Only if the AI is allowed to force you to choose certain idea groups if you're a vassal.
 
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Aquae Sulis

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Vassals aren't meant to be your own attack dog or colonisation machine.

They are meant to be semi-independent nations, with their own leadership and their own hopes and dreams.

They should be allowed to make their own stupid decisions. (I also don't see the fun in having less challenge, frustrating and arbitrary as it may be).

Sure I wish idea picks were more situational, but the answer to a non-ideal mechanic is not always more player power.

I would agree however with more influence over CNs and Client States. Not idea groups but definitely add/dip/mil focus.
 
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bbqftw

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alternatively, make all released vassals take aristocratic, diplomatic, and defensive...

Only if the AI is allowed to force you to choose certain idea groups if you're a vassal.
I'm pretty sure only the Association of Concerned Ndongo Players would be affected by this, everyone else practically ganks their overlord in the first 5 years.
 
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grommile

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alternatively, make all released vassals take aristocratic, diplomatic, and defensive...
That would be a wonderful piece of trolling from Paradox :)
 

Wizzington

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If you want to choose the idea groups for that territory... integrate it.
 
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DanubianCossak

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Not to mention that you could purposely tank your bit-i mean vassals by taking bad ideas so that they can never rebel against you (and if they do, they get crashed by your uber armies).
 

Moridin997

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If you want to choose the idea groups for that territory... integrate it.

I agree that vassals should be independent enough to choose their own ideas.


However, they do sometimes make some rather questionable choices...

Are we going to see an improvement in that regard in the near future? (I'm talking about all AIs here, not just vassals...)
 
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LoriKe

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If this would be in game no vassal would ever have aristrocratic ideas 'cause of the increase coring cost which transmutes in annexing cost. And in my opinion changes to gamemechanics which reduce the avaible options are just plain stupidity.
 

davej

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Hello!

I've been annoyed recently by stupidity of my vassal's choices in my recent mp game:

As Byzantine Empire I vassalized Circassia and fed them with Caucasian provinces. Guess what first Idea Set did they take? MARITIME! Poor small Circassia with a single coastal province wanted to dominate the Black Sea trade! They didn't take Religious or Defensive as their first choice. Later on they took Humanism ideas as 4th or 5th set, which has buggered me off completely, since for centuries they stayed in the same borders, all cultures were accepted and the only trouble they had were the conversion of some Muslim provinces.

maritime is naval improvement, not really trade. So they want to improve their naval forces, diversity is what makes it more interesting. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. I've learned to accept that there are different styles of play that can be just as productive than mine.
 
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