Please Get Rid Of Seclusion

[SacremPyrobolum]

It is only a marginally useful action that is disproportionately annoying.

Whenever I'm on campaign I keep having to swap out my commanders because as soon as anyone gets the sniffles near their castle they have to instantly teleport away from my army and seclude themselves. Apparently being at ground zero of the outbreak is safer than being hundreds of miles away on campaign. Safer from disease, at least...

I suppose this stems from a larger problem of characters instantly teleporting everywhere. I'd like to see this issue addressed, but in the mean time I think seclusion should be removed. I've done it maybe twice and its always a worse option than investing in a hospital or finding a competent physician.

 

[Asiak]

Um you can pry seclusion from my cold dead fingers.

It was a needed option. And removing it entirely is not the solution. Tweaking when the AI uses it is the solution.

 

[vandevere]

Make it a Game Rule. That way those who like it can keep it, and those who don't can skip it...

 

[Zoomun]

Have fun with your entire family dying from the plague

 

[Duskwave]

It's reasonable (basically the only option other than my usual response of moving the capital to Iceland for the duration, which is obviously not an option for vassals) when it's the Black Death. Any other time, it's just dumb, and some of them do it SO OFTEN. Either do something to make it less frequent, make it treat councillors as being in their liege's capital, not their own, or make it so doing it forces them to resign their council position (WITHOUT the opinion malus of me having "fired" them, unlike so many other things that cause them to leave on their own...).

 

[Esben_DRK]

There are two problems IMO: First, the AI rarely if ever builds and improves hospitals, so disease spreads fast and wide, which means many vassals will go into seclusion at the same time. Second, the AI goes into seclusion over both minor outbreaks and the Black Death. Unless my dynasty/succession/something important is at risk, I prefer the ability to act and risk minor diseases, over seclusion and seclusion events (Of course this is less of a gamble when I build hospitals and get the best physician around). The AI seems to operate under the notion that "seclusion is available, then I do it" rather than any calculated risk.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

It's worth pointing out that the AI will often have a much smaller dynasty than the player and Seclusion may make more sense for them.

On the topic of hospitals - the AI seems to be quite happy to build in them but disinclined to establish them to begin with, which seems like a bug. Further, and I pointed this out a long time ago, hospitals need to be seeded in later start dates. The more developed provinces are the faster disease spreads and without pre-seeded hospitals later start dates are just one big Petri Dish of disease.

 

[raven63]

Seclusion is useful for saving your character and his family from diseases.

You know what else is useful? Traveling to a place that is disease-free. In fact, I would say that this probably was the method of choice for an average medieval ruler.

Oh wait, there is no concept of travel in CK2. Characters are everywhere and nowhere at the same time. There is no logic to the locality of game-play factors which affect a character.

The fact that seclusion affects army commanders the way it does now is ridiculous. CK2 has had a bunch of these ridiculous kinks that were never ironed out.

 

[vandevere]

My problem with it isn't so much when they go into seclusion during plagues and such; although why a Councillor would flee my plague-free court to hide in his plaque-infested capital does shake my suspension of disbelief. The craziest part of this is when the Councillor in question owns a county in a Plague Zone, but is currently residing in my capital, which is far away from the Plague Zone. Like he lives in Provence, but my capital is in Brugge. My Councillor is perfectly safe from the Plague while living at Brugge. If he's not stupid/suicidal, why would he flee to Provence when he's perfectly safe at my capital?

Also, What I can't stand is when they go into seclusion because of the Paranoid Trait. It has occurred that every one of my Councillors has gotten the Paranoid Trait-all at the same time-immediately fleeing to their home estates.

Apparently, the Paranoid Trait-for me at least-is the New Normal. All of my Councillors get it within weeks of being hired. I Console Command it out as soon as I find it. But they're often Paranoid the very next day. And, off they go to their estates. All because they're afraid of the Boogeyman.

Still, I can accept it if they have legit reasons for fleeing. Fleeing then is understandable. However, there need to be maluses if they flee because of the Boogeyman. I am their liege, and they're not even asking for permission anymore. They're just taking off and heading for the hills.

If a Councillor flees because of Paranoia, he should certainly get the Craven Trait, and a neat Opinion malus from his Liege. Also, due to this happening because of the Paranoid Trait, maybe he should earn the Trait, Afraid of his own shadow...

 

[Duskwave]

If a big chunk of your court is constantly getting the Paranoid trait, I'd assume you have multiple secret cults active and leaving holy books in your councillors' private quarters...

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Another point - whilst your Councillor may be in your capital his wife and children may not be, hence the need for seclusion.

 

[vandevere]

If a big chunk of your court is constantly getting the Paranoid trait, I'd assume you have multiple secret cults active and leaving holy books in your councillors' private quarters...

If I had Monks and Mystics I might agree. But I don't. And I have Secret Cults turned off in the Game Rules, along with Supernatural Events...

 

[Aerotinge]

A trade-off is that disable certain DLC gets rid of seclusion.