That's perfectly fine. I've had long lasting Kanem Bornese - French or Tibetan - Austrian alliances
please fix "wants your provinces"
- Thread starter Redwallzyl
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From what I read on the forum so far, it seems to be mostly a problem with missions that give a large number of claims at once. The opinion modifier doesn't know that all those claims disappear as soon as any one claimed province is owned, it's calculated as if every one were needed.
This could be avoided by giving claims an attribute, opinion_weight or so, which controls how much this claim contributes to the "Wants your provinces" opinion modifier, with a default value of 1. The mission that gives x claims at once could then set each claim's weight to 1/x, so the "love" gets evenly spread out over the owners of the claimed provinces, with a sum of 1 province's worth of "want".
Another way might be not to change the "Wants your provinces" modifier instantly, but letting it slowly shift to the target value, with speed depending on attitude. E.g., if AI gets the spice mission, the target value for Wants... becomes -200, but if their attitude is Friendly towards you, it decreases only by, say, 5 per month. This would give the AI a chance to get their province before breaking off alliances, and the player might notice in time to take action (e.g., selling them a fricken province, if need be). If the attitude is Hostile, Rival, etc., the opinion modifier may as well drop all the way instantly. This would make the AI somewhat more lenient towards it allies, but eventually grow impatient about getting its claims, which would seem more-or-less plausible.
This could be avoided by giving claims an attribute, opinion_weight or so, which controls how much this claim contributes to the "Wants your provinces" opinion modifier, with a default value of 1. The mission that gives x claims at once could then set each claim's weight to 1/x, so the "love" gets evenly spread out over the owners of the claimed provinces, with a sum of 1 province's worth of "want".
Another way might be not to change the "Wants your provinces" modifier instantly, but letting it slowly shift to the target value, with speed depending on attitude. E.g., if AI gets the spice mission, the target value for Wants... becomes -200, but if their attitude is Friendly towards you, it decreases only by, say, 5 per month. This would give the AI a chance to get their province before breaking off alliances, and the player might notice in time to take action (e.g., selling them a fricken province, if need be). If the attitude is Hostile, Rival, etc., the opinion modifier may as well drop all the way instantly. This would make the AI somewhat more lenient towards it allies, but eventually grow impatient about getting its claims, which would seem more-or-less plausible.
What confuses me about this is that I'll notice an OPM that borders me ... who wants ALL of my provinces. I could have over 100, they want them all. This modifier should be scaled to how large a country is. Ragusa shouldn't be able to desire the entire Ottoman empire. It's silly.
I don't mind the backstabbing, especially over neighboring provinces. That makes some sense and can reflect changing interests that, again, make sense.
What I do mind is backstabbing over really stupid or worthless things that do little or nothing to further the interests of the backstabber. Like -200 wants Venad/East Timor because of a mission, when, of they asked, I'd gladly either hand over a colony to satisfy their mission or help them beat the tar out of some hapless natives to fulfill their mission. That they hate everyone in the target area so completely is stupid when there are easy targets like Habsan available.
What I do mind is backstabbing over really stupid or worthless things that do little or nothing to further the interests of the backstabber. Like -200 wants Venad/East Timor because of a mission, when, of they asked, I'd gladly either hand over a colony to satisfy their mission or help them beat the tar out of some hapless natives to fulfill their mission. That they hate everyone in the target area so completely is stupid when there are easy targets like Habsan available.
The size of the opinion demerit does indeed scale based on relative country size, aside from missions of course which seem pretty well broken in terms of applying it right now.
Countries shouldn't be able to do a 360 overnight. Half the time, you don't even see it coming. Penalties should probably build up over time.
I was playing a week or so ago in one of many games I started in a short while. In one I quit after my ally and +200 relations friend suddenly dropped the alliance and had a -140 wants your province for just TWO provinces.
Imagine how bad it is when you are Portugal and your national security relies on France, who (overnight) decides that one Indian province is worth more than decades of loyalty.
that would have merit in CK2 if France were your liege, that loyalty being betrayed would wreck the realm and international standings, you're only an ally as long as the government deems you as such. Or else Napoleon didn't REALLY invade Spain after years of them backing Napoleon as a faithful ally.
The modifier also applies to our vassal's provinces, and I wonder if it does to client states. It depends on the ruler I noticed (changes as a new ruler rises). Sometimes their desire vanish, well it can vary from 0 desire to several provinces and to -160 hit.
Still wondering if anyone knows client states will fix this?
Still wondering if anyone knows client states will fix this?
Why should client states "fix" this? Any human player will know that it's your land, in the end. Why should the AI act like a retard?
By the way, I think this modifier is moddable for those who don't want it.
Why should client states "fix" this? Any human player will know that it's your land, in the end. Why should the AI act like a retard?
By the way, I think this modifier is moddable for those who don't want it.
Yeah, they are vassals, afterall. Problem is I don't see the point of them being buffer zones which actually should help to prevent conflict? Other than neighboring heretic/heathen province maluses.
Client states are in the game to be able to recreate the Napoleonic states and also for the fun factor (Earth, Wind, etc. -> Captain Planet), than to serve as buffer zones.
And historically buffer states haven't really prevented wars. They were more a postponement of the conflict than anything (Korea, Armenia, Danubian Principalities, etc.).
I think something is missing in this list. I had a recent game in Tibet and both the Timurids, Bengal, and Jaunpur would some times get the modifier. Sure, Bengal/Jaunpur would some times claim 1 province, but they would get WYP modifier for every single one of my provinces. Timurids had permanent CB, but never any claims, as they bordered my capital.
1) 0 cores for either country
2) some times 1 or 2 claims, but it'd still say that they wanted all of my provinces
3) no missions
4) not needed for hindustan
5) very poor land with wrong culture and religion for both nations
6) one of the poorest trade nodes, though it could feed them
I think they just had the modifier because I was incredibly weak ~12k soldiers vs their 80k, 30k, 30k respectively. There could also be many other reasons for this modifier to appear.
Well, it's been said that the modifier scales with relative power of the two countries, so it would make sense, that they kind of sort of wat to control a trade node, that can feed their own, even if it's not that rich and you being weak on paper makes it more attractive.
Completely agree. I don't have any problem with the modifier, just wanted to point out that it was not an exhaustive list. Of course they should be threatening to me if I am very weak. Thankfully if you marry them while the modifier is temporarily gone you will be almost completely safe until the marriage ends as they don't ever seem to be willing to take a stab hit when declaring war.
On the other hand though would you consider that France taking the "annex Milan" mission and getting -200 wonky, considering Milan is very rich and probably on their border if they have taken the mission?
What I'm not ok with is players wanting to be best buddies with nations for 400 years, without any kind of turbulence. That's even further into fantasy land than the lasers some people wanted in EU4
The problem is random "wants your land" isn't how that process worked. Historically it was the rise of the new powers (Britain, Prussia and Russia) which upset the balance in Europe that had held for centuries. For the longest time Austria and France were the sides and everyone involved picked one or the other. These alliances were in fact incredibly stable right up until the point where the new powers became scary. That is when you get Austrians marrying Frenchmen and all sorts of crazy.
That -200 should behave precisely identically to any other claim + wants province combo. Unless you're very, very powerful France would break the alliance in such a case either way, but if you happen to be stronger than France and its only ally then it shouldn't be breaking it in that context.
Fair enough broken alliances due to missions in that context is pretty illogical but only if France is being pressed by strong rivals, in their absence France doesn't need allies including the player.