Absolutely ridiculous the game doesn't explain you lose elections with that reform. I wasted years with a 1-1-4. Only when I took a stab hit on ruler death that I realized how long it had been since an election.
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Please fix Novgorod Consolidate Power to the Doge
- Thread starter ozymand1as
- Start date
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I encountered this seeming bug today as well. I played Muscovy, took the tier 6 reform to become a republic, then selected grand veche republic as my tier 1 and 'consolidate power in the doge' as my tier 3. This appeared to disable elections and I was simply getting a random ruler on monarch death, with no election event at all and no cost to RT as far as I can tell.
Attached above are screenshots from the ironman save file I encountered this in showing my government reforms as well as the ruler panel, which should tell me when the next election is. The below image is a mock up using the console to demonstrate that no election occurs even on monarch death, and noting that republican tradition was not affected (it was 50 prior to running the kill command in the console)
Notably in my fiddling around, I have found that it:
> works properly prior to taking consolidate power in the doge
>works fine if you take something other than consolidate power in the doge at tier 3
> if you take consolidate power it the doge, and then subsequently switch to another tier 3 reform, this does *not* reverse the error and you will still have no elections even on monarch death
The description for consolidate power in the doge does not state that a random ruler is selected on monarch death and there are no elections. I suspect this is simply a minor oversight. 'consolidate power in the doge' is intended primarily for Venice, who's unique tier 1 states election on monarch death by lottery. I suspect somebody allowed veche republics to take this reform because they are the (only?) other unique merchant republic government forms, without realising that consolidate power in the doge secretly disables elections, presumably it at some point did or was intended to say 'election only on ruler death' and since it works fine with Venice nobody changed it for Veche republics.
This could presumably be fixed by either:
1) changing consolidate power in the doge tier 3 to include
> election only on monarch death
2) disallowing Veche and Grand Veche republics from taking 'consolidate power in the doge'
3) removing the hidden disabling of elections from consolidate power in the doge and allowing Veche/Grand Veche to continue to have elections as normal with the reform enabled (might be slightly out-with the intended flavour since consolidating power in the doge does sound rather autocratic)
Incidentally its worth pointing out that Grand Veche republic does not share the other merchant republics mechanics entirely ie:
factions,
increased governing cost in states, less in trade companies
I had assumed this was intentional (and honestly I'd prefer it that way xD).
But since Grand Veche does give off slightly more authoritarian vibes, there is a possible option:
4) give 'election only on monarch death' to Grand Veche Republic tier 1 only, disallowing Veche republic to take 'consolidate power in the doge' tier 3 or allowing them to simply suck up the sub-optimal government type until they can form Russia/Ruthenia
since that reform is the ultimate goal of any Novgorod or Republican Russia game anyway and the description for it does seem to imply rather more tsarist/autocratic tendencies than the standard Veche republic, it might be more of a flavour win that way.
And while I'm here I'm still pining for some type of 'theocratic Tsardom' please xD.
Hopefully this gets changed/fixed, and I look forward to seeing it in patchnotes. In the meantime my recomendation to other players is to take sortition instead as Veche or Grand Veche Republics.
Cheers.
Attached above are screenshots from the ironman save file I encountered this in showing my government reforms as well as the ruler panel, which should tell me when the next election is. The below image is a mock up using the console to demonstrate that no election occurs even on monarch death, and noting that republican tradition was not affected (it was 50 prior to running the kill command in the console)
Notably in my fiddling around, I have found that it:
> works properly prior to taking consolidate power in the doge
>works fine if you take something other than consolidate power in the doge at tier 3
> if you take consolidate power it the doge, and then subsequently switch to another tier 3 reform, this does *not* reverse the error and you will still have no elections even on monarch death
The description for consolidate power in the doge does not state that a random ruler is selected on monarch death and there are no elections. I suspect this is simply a minor oversight. 'consolidate power in the doge' is intended primarily for Venice, who's unique tier 1 states election on monarch death by lottery. I suspect somebody allowed veche republics to take this reform because they are the (only?) other unique merchant republic government forms, without realising that consolidate power in the doge secretly disables elections, presumably it at some point did or was intended to say 'election only on ruler death' and since it works fine with Venice nobody changed it for Veche republics.
This could presumably be fixed by either:
1) changing consolidate power in the doge tier 3 to include
> election only on monarch death
2) disallowing Veche and Grand Veche republics from taking 'consolidate power in the doge'
3) removing the hidden disabling of elections from consolidate power in the doge and allowing Veche/Grand Veche to continue to have elections as normal with the reform enabled (might be slightly out-with the intended flavour since consolidating power in the doge does sound rather autocratic)
Incidentally its worth pointing out that Grand Veche republic does not share the other merchant republics mechanics entirely ie:
factions,
increased governing cost in states, less in trade companies
I had assumed this was intentional (and honestly I'd prefer it that way xD).
But since Grand Veche does give off slightly more authoritarian vibes, there is a possible option:
4) give 'election only on monarch death' to Grand Veche Republic tier 1 only, disallowing Veche republic to take 'consolidate power in the doge' tier 3 or allowing them to simply suck up the sub-optimal government type until they can form Russia/Ruthenia
since that reform is the ultimate goal of any Novgorod or Republican Russia game anyway and the description for it does seem to imply rather more tsarist/autocratic tendencies than the standard Veche republic, it might be more of a flavour win that way.
And while I'm here I'm still pining for some type of 'theocratic Tsardom' please xD.
Hopefully this gets changed/fixed, and I look forward to seeing it in patchnotes. In the meantime my recomendation to other players is to take sortition instead as Veche or Grand Veche Republics.
Cheers.
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Well the assumption it works fine in Venice is not true. Found out that if you enact the tier 3 'disperse power across cities' reform that states it gives 'Term duration: 4' then when your sitting as a venetian republic who's doge is in for life but now you got a election date every 4 years......so the doge dies every 4 years.
I thought i could get back to having re-elections but nope.........the election date every 4 years kills the doge and its 3 new candidates. Not working at all
I thought i could get back to having re-elections but nope.........the election date every 4 years kills the doge and its 3 new candidates. Not working at all
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