Please Fix Naval Invasions

[Tisifoni12]

So, Germany 1940, doing the Seelowe:

Send the Kriegsmarine to search and destroy in the channel, also the Baltic fleet to convoy escort, six subs to the North Sea and six to the Western Approaches. 120 naval bombers and 600 dive bombers also attacking allied shipping in the channel.

10 divisions set sail from Dunkirk for Essex. Get to 1 day and 7 hours out and they stay there on 1 day and 7 hours out for like a week or so, while allied aircraft bombety. bombety, bomb and they dwindle away to nothing, not even a single traumatised soul in a rowing boat for one . . .

Either they cross the channel without losses, or they cross the channel with losses, or they get driven back to port with losses, they don't sit there for a week !

 

[Shebaloso]

I'm a bit surprised that you can wrestle control of the channel away from the british navy in 1940. At any rate, they're not simply "sitting there for a week". They've probably been engaged by some british fleet or squadron, that's why they're dying instead of advancing or retreating. Once convoys are engaged, they are pretty much dead unless you are also engaging with warships.

 

[Tisifoni12]

At any rate, they're not simply "sitting there for a week".

Actually they sit there for a week.

Surely in a real situation, they would either get to the beaches, perhaps with a few hours delay or they would break off the invasion and head for port with losses. I tried it again and they did sit there from I think 23rd July to something like 8th August . . . Those that weren't bombed probably starved to death . . .

Warships were there at the beginning, then both surface fleets left and we were left with bombety, bomb, bomb . . .

And one isn't wrestling control of the channel, one is desperately throwing away probably at least half of the surface fleet to open a brief window of opportunity to get perhaps 24 infantry divisions and six panzer / panzer grenadier over. Ten to grab a port and then sail the others over fast.

Unfortunately, as Italy aren't in the war the British have something like 40 divisions in 'blighty' including the Egyptian cavalry brigade and the Penang garrison . . .

 

[Shebaloso]

Actually they sit there for a week.

Surely in a real situation, they would either get to the beaches, perhaps with a few hours delay or they would break off the invasion and head for port with losses. I tried it again and they did sit there from I think 23rd July to something like 8th August . . . Those that weren't bombed probably starved to death . . .

Warships were there at the beginning, then both surface fleets left and we were left with bombety, bomb, bomb . . .

I'm not getting it. If they are simply sitting there, why are they dying? I don't know if you're joking with "starved to death", but supply is not an issue with naval invasions until you actually land. If they're dying, they are being engaged. If they are being engaged, they are not allowed to proceed nor to retreat until they disengage. Even with no fleets, enemy naval bombers can engage your ships as if on a normal sea battle.

Anyway, try posting some screenshots here to help us understand the situation.

 

[Tisifoni12]

If they are being engaged, they are not allowed to proceed nor to retreat until they disengage

Okay, so there may have been a small number of submarines involved too, but my general point is that something here could use some improvement. Naval battles generally didn't last more than a few hours to a day. Maybe there are some carrier actions in the Pacific that were a little longer. Surface ships run out of ammunition, naval invasion fleets will pack up and go home if the plan falls more than X hours behind schedule. They certainly aren't going to sit a few miles off the coast of Essex for a week or ten days. Purely submarine and ASW warfare needs to be handled more like air warfare is, e.g. unless you have subs integrated with and supporting surface ships.

 

[Shebaloso]

Okay, so there may have been a small number of submarines involved too, but my general point is that something here could use some improvement. Naval battles generally didn't last more than a few hours to a day. Maybe there are some carrier actions in the Pacific that were a little longer. Surface ships run out of ammunition, naval invasion fleets will pack up and go home if the plan falls more than X hours behind schedule. They certainly aren't going to sit a few miles off the coast of Essex for a week or ten days. Purely submarine and ASW warfare needs to be handled more like air warfare is, e.g. unless you have subs integrated with and supporting surface ships.

Although i agree with you in some ways, specially concerning sub warfare, yours now is another point altogether. You started the thread "complaining" about a specific problem, namely the apparent idleness of invasion fleets. There's nothing fix about it then, as it really seems they are not simply idle, but immobile because they are being engaged. And you can actively halt the invasion and send them back to port by pressing the "Halt" key or clicking on your ports. Be aware that you have also to command your general or field marshal to stop the invasion plan, lest your invasion force try the invasion again once they reach home soil.

I would suggest creating another thread with suggestions if you don't agree with the naval combat is represented and want to discuss it.

 

[Tisifoni12]

You interpreted what I write as "idle invasion fleets" but that wasn't The intention behind what I wrote. An invasion fleet that had 'just stopped' could easily be ordered to head for port. The fleet was halted and I could neither order it to proceed or abort.

I have already mentioned the need for revision of naval combat elsewhere and made suggestions.

 

[Shebaloso]

An invasion fleet that had 'just stopped' could easily be ordered to head for port. The fleet was halted and I could neither order it to proceed or abort.

Yes, because they were probably engaged in battle.

 

[Tisifoni12]

I know, my point is that a naval battle wouldn't go on so long and that an invasion fleet would either proceed with losses or abort with losses.

The distance from Dunkerque to Kent id about 50m/80km. An invasion fleet is not going to sit just a few km off the coast of Kent for 7 - 10 days until it is all sunk, no matter if it is engaged.