Please fix daily stutter.

[Jiav]

I hate to tell you this, but the next DLC will have been started regardless of whether there are problems or not. It might only be a theme and the basics of what they want, and only on paper so far, but it will have been started, at least to that extent.
The one after that might have been started as well, at least in outline.

As for not realising they have stutter, even if it's major - surely that comes under not having it to a degree where it impacts on them, or not noticing it?


I guess my point with asking whether raising the thread *again* has any value is largely whether you think raising the thread will actually make them fix it any quicker?
Raising a collective thread immediately after a patch going "the stutter is still here for me" has value - since it is new information. Raising a thread that's essentially "yeah, you're working on it, but it's still broken like it was the day after the last patch was released" doesn't really do anything to get them to work harder or faster.
It's also not like the execs are going to be unaware of the problem, or that they've got staff working on it.

you are right, its best just not to say anything and just leave things as they are. I am sure when stellaris 2 comes out in 10 years the issue might have been resolved or not. Seeing the game still has bugs from Utopia in it (which have been acked back then) and still not fixed.

Without voicing your complaints no one will ever do something about it, even if the issue is acknowledged. In short: The more people STILL complain and point fingers at issues, the faster it will be resolved or even worked on.

If no one complains anymore, they might as well just stop working on it. As its obviously something the playerbase dont care about it.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

you are right, its best just not to say anything and just leave things as they are. I am sure when stellaris 2 comes out in 10 years the issue might have been resolved or not. Seeing the game still has bugs from Utopia in it (which have been acked back then) and still not fixed.

Without voicing your complaints no one will ever do something about it, even if the issue is acknowledged. In short: The more people STILL complain and point fingers at issues, the faster it will be resolved or even worked on.

If no one complains anymore, they might as well just stop working on it. As its obviously something the playerbase dont care about it.

The thing is, the complaint has been made **and** heard. It's (apparently) one of their top priorities.
Repeated complaints about the very thing they're fixing don't progress things any faster than where they're already aware of the issue and working on it. Unless you think further threads like this will somehow make them make it an even higher priority than it already is?

As I said in the post you quote, if the next patch doesn't solve it, then bringing it back up is completely valid. I'm not saying to just say nothing and ignore it.

If Utopia bugs are still around, I assume they've been rementioned in the bug forum recently?

 

[Zale]

isn't the game struggling now because it now has to deal with 1000 times more pops that it has to check there jobs per day.

To me personally the game is near unplayable on 1000 star maps because of this.

 

[KingAlamar]

My frames do not drop below 80 fps and run at around 140 fps.
as for lowering visuals.. I\m running an RTX 2080.
cpu on this sytem is a Ryzen 1700x But i\m experiencing the same on intell cpus.
tried Glavius with no effect as well.

trying to move it over to my ssd but i\m curently running it on a raid. Also.... a game should rely not be accessing the disk that often.




not running the beta.
they fixed it in the beta?

If you drop from 140FPS to 80 FPS [for day 1 processing??] then that means you get up to roughly a .4 second stutter which is plenty large enough to notice.

While it seems super unlikely that your config has ANY resource problems it wouldn't hurt to do a sanity check on the extreme low chance you missed something??? If nothing else you could bolster your case by saying 'hey look at this'.

FYI: You might not need to worry about the SSD too much. Based on other posters saying "everyone has the stutter problem" I looked myself AND it does appear that I also have a large enough stutter to notice when I'm looking for it. In 2480 my "seconds per game month" was about 7.5 which is good-enough for me but when I REALLY paid attention I could see a problem.

THEORY: My system is certainly not an Ry 1700X [or CORE i7] with a 8GB state of the art GPU. You system likely is so free of most bottlenecks that any sluggishness will REALLY standout. My system on the other hand is a Core i5 3570K, 2GB Radeon HD 7850, 16 GB ram, SATA 3 SSD. As such my nearly 7 year old system is NOWHERE nearly as strong as yours so the drop in performance is LESS noticeable because my performance isn't on the same planet as yours anyway.

Devil's Advocate: I also suspect that stutter BUGS THE CRAP out of some people, others are annoyed, others don't notice the stutter because it's "normal" to them, while still others never did notice for one reason or another.

 

[KingAlamar]

There was a big thread about this when it was first happening and people who claimed to "not see a stutter", would put it on youtube and the stuttering was very very obvious, most of the time its simply playstyle, if you only look at your area, dont pan the camera, rarely use the fastest speed, and pause every time you do anything, you might not see it, or at least it might not be noticed that much, but if you turn on console, type 3dstats and watch the graph youll see spikes, regardless. So it is in fact the game, not the computer, and it does in fact effect everyone.

Actually that's in some way "me". I do run on fastest as there is no other speed ... However I don't often pan the camera and if I do then I'm apt to pause the game first. I mostly concentrate on tech advancement, planets list, or piracy hotspots and [unless I'm at war] don't care about ships moving around the map as the AI is far too dumb to concentrate / mass forces prior to attacks or anything significant.

I was in the camp of "what stutter". Sure enough I pulled up a 2480 game and did nothing on the game but look for traces of stutter and I did notice it once in a while -- mostly if ship movements were occurring at the stutter point.

I also have a theory that people with older systems [and therefore not cutting edge performance] are less likely to notice the problem simply because the differential in performance is less than big-boy systems.

I've also changed game and other settings to improve performance so under early versions of 2.2 I was between 25-40 seconds per month late game with multiple second long periods of stutter -- long enough that I thought the game was about to CTD. Going from that to 7.5 seconds each month in 2480 is pretty darn nice so I literally wasn't noticing the stutter that seems to be present.

 

[ImbaXenoSnipar]

The 2.2.4 beta does not fix the daily stutter problem. It improves performance in the sense that days go by faster, but it definitely does not fix the stutter.

If I start a new game on default settings, no mods, etc, then the daily stutter can be observed on day 1 on fastest speed. When I do this, the days go by very quickly and I am not complaining about this. The problem is that you can see frame drops whenever the days switch over, especially when you move the camera. For this reason, the faster speed you are playing on, the easier it becomes to notice. This problem became very noticable and very annoying ever since 2.2.0 was released and has not been fixed since then.

I have seen plenty of these threads about the stutter and I have concluded that everybody is affected by this problem, but some people just either do not see it, or play the game such that the problem is ameliorated (start a game on a small galaxy, play only on normal speed, never move the camera around, etc.). Counter-intuitively, people with bad hardware are less likely to observe the bug, because their performance is already bad and so the days go by slower compared to people with good rigs, so there are fewer daily micro-stutters per second and therefore it's more difficult for them to see it. In any case, I still have not seen a single video of stutter-free gameplay on a default galaxy, no mods, fastest speed, year 2400+, etc.

 

[Badesumofu]

I have seen plenty of these threads about the stutter and I have concluded that everybody is affected by this problem, but some people just either do not see it, or play the game such that they are not affected by it (start a game on a small galaxy, play only on normal speed, never move the camera around).

I think you're correct. I barely notice it, but it is definitely there and it bothers me when I do notice it. I tend to play speed 5 with a lot of pausing (basically any time I do anything) so the stutter doesn't affect me much. I can see how it might make the game feel unplayable for someone who does more stuff while unpaused.

But anyone who doubts it exists - start a game with whatever settings you like. Pause and pan around the galaxy. Then unpause and pan around the galaxy - see the difference. Or don't because once you notice it, it's much more annoying.

 

[XorioZ]

I'm sorry...
I can't find a single thread or forum post here on paradox or other places where an actual dev says they are working on it.
Only hearsay and rumor.

Also. I have suffered under this problem for over 6 months.
saying that I'm not allowed to complain about a known bug that has persisted for so long with no news nor fixes is hard for me to understand.
I paid for the game and for all the dlc.. I like the game. and that should at the very least give me the right to complain when something doesn't work.

I have tried a myriad of fixes, none of which fixes this problem. some do make it less noticeable but not enough for the game to be playable at speed.
The problem did become worse with the last dlc but it has existed for a vary long time.

 

[KingAlamar]

I'm sorry...
I can't find a single thread or forum post here on paradox or other places where an actual dev says they are working on it.
Only hearsay and rumor.

Also. I have suffered under this problem for over 6 months.
saying that I'm not allowed to complain about a known bug that has persisted for so long with no news nor fixes is hard for me to understand.
I paid for the game and for all the dlc.. I like the game. and that should at the very least give me the right to complain when something doesn't work.

I have tried a myriad of fixes, none of which fixes this problem. some do make it less noticeable but not enough for the game to be playable at speed.
The problem did become worse with the last dlc but it has existed for a vary long time.

I'm pretty sure that you, as a consumer, should be allowed to speak your mind. This forum is as good as any and far better than most alternatives if you want a better chance for the devs to notice the problem and do something about it.

I can see the point that "more whining won't do much" as performance seems to have been a big sticking point since the game launched and is perhaps worse now that there are likely many more calculations going on for day 1. If the devs don't know about the problem by now then they aren't particularly listening to feedback.

Assuming the stutter is due to some calculation bottleneck (??) I wonder if it would be best to try to NOT calculate everything on day 1. As examples:

• Do "Trade / Market" resolution on day 5.
• Do Resource production on day 15.
• Apply empire maluses [for lack of energy, minerals, etc.] on day 25.
• Recalculate "jobs" not every day but via "events" such as building completion, faction updates, species mod completion, etc.
• Find any other way possible to alleviate these sorts of problems.

I suspect that the current engine is not well configured for doing a LOT of different tasks in parallel. When working on Operating Systems and Apps I find that properly breaking up tasks into separate threads BUT still keeping proper synchronization with data is very difficult. If you don't go out of your way to hire "enough" people that can tackle this type of advanced task then it's no wonder that the game would mostly be "single core CPU performance bound".

 

[XorioZ]

ok. 2.2.4 is out now. did not fix..
is my complaint more valid now?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I'm sorry...
I can't find a single thread or forum post here on paradox or other places where an actual dev says they are working on it.
Only hearsay and rumor.

Also. I have suffered under this problem for over 6 months.
saying that I'm not allowed to complain about a known bug that has persisted for so long with no news nor fixes is hard for me to understand.
I paid for the game and for all the dlc.. I like the game. and that should at the very least give me the right to complain when something doesn't work.

I have tried a myriad of fixes, none of which fixes this problem. some do make it less noticeable but not enough for the game to be playable at speed.
The problem did become worse with the last dlc but it has existed for a vary long time.

So you've not read the dev diaries that specifically called it out as a priority?
You didn't read the responses in other, recent threads about this issue?

And again, it isn't that you're "not allowed" to complain. It's that complaining and raising yet another thread about an issue that is being addressed isn't that productive.
When the devs go "we're working on this as a priority", going "please fix this thing you're already fixing" doesn't get things any further along.

ok. 2.2.4 is out now. did not fix..
is my complaint more valid now?

Did you experience any improvement? Could you consider posting whether it's made any difference to the thread about 2.2.4 being released, and maybe see if anything in 2.2.5 beta helps your situation?

 

[XorioZ]

I'm sad to say that the update and new beta did nothing to solve the problem.
I have also read all threads i could find on the matter of stuttering. On this forum as well as reddit and other forums.
A lot of people have been saying that the devs are working on it yes. But none have given any prof to this. A quick read over the last few dev dairies also have no mention of this.
Searching the forums for the word stutter yields 0 results where a dev mentions it.
One post has a link for a supposed bug ticket where people should post comments in this but the link is dead.

So you've not read the dev diaries that specifically called it out as a priority?
You didn't read the responses in other, recent threads about this issue?

You are just another person telling me the devs are working on it without providing a link proving this "fact" for all I know.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I'm sad to say that the update and new beta did nothing to solve the problem.
I have also read all threads i could find on the matter of stuttering. On this forum as well as reddit and other forums.
A lot of people have been saying that the devs are working on it yes. But none have given any prof to this. A quick read over the last few dev dairies also have no mention of this.
Searching the forums for the word stutter yields 0 results where a dev mentions it.
One post has a link for a supposed bug ticket where people should post comments in this but the link is dead.


You are just another person telling me the devs are working on it without providing a link proving this "fact" for all I know.

"Stuttering" probably isn't the correct search term to use.
Try "performance". It's a somewhat more technical and somewhat more inclusive term when it comes to the issues people are having.

It's certainly mentioned in the "new patch" threads, and as for not being mentioned in the dev diaries, there's certainly mention of it in this one, albeit as "expect these fixes".

Those are just a few of the bigger points that I wanted to address, and that have been prioritized for the definitive 2.2.x version. Of course I need to repeat that it's not a complete list of all the issues we will be addressing. You can expect there to be more fixes to bugs, improvement to AI and performance, and other issues from the rest of the dev team. Your feedback is very important in helping us prioritize the most high-value changes we can make during this period, so we really appreciate it.

Similarly in the first post of #137 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-137-updates-holidays-and-the-future.1140472/ you've got the dev talking about taking time for performance improvements.

 

[XorioZ]

"Stuttering" probably isn't the correct search term to use.
Try "performance". It's a somewhat more technical and somewhat more inclusive term when it comes to the issues people are having.

It's certainly mentioned in the "new patch" threads, and as for not being mentioned in the dev diaries, there's certainly mention of it in this one, albeit as "expect these fixes".



Similarly in the first post of #137 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-137-updates-holidays-and-the-future.1140472/ you've got the dev talking about taking time for performance improvements.

Again. None of the info you have provided show a dev talking about this specific problem. general performance improvements are not indicative of the dev team acknowledging this problem. it's vague and almost mentioned as a second thought.

I do not even understand how this problem can exist. the render pipeline should always be running independent of any game logic. If it did there would not be any stutter on the camera no matter what the performance was.

 

[Badesumofu]

Again. None of the info you have provided show a dev talking about this specific problem. general performance improvements are not indicative of the dev team acknowledging this problem. it's vague and almost mentioned as a second thought.

There are too many specific problems for it to be reasonable to expect a dev to acknowledge them all individually. They've said performance improvements are a priority. That's as good as you're likely to get - but really what is important is that they fix the issue. Asking for a very specific acknowledgement won't make that happen any faster.

 

[XorioZ]

There are too many specific problems for it to be reasonable to expect a dev to acknowledge them all individually. They've said performance improvements are a priority. That's as good as you're likely to get - but really what is important is that they fix the issue. Asking for a very specific acknowledgement won't make that happen any faster.

Except this specified problem / bug is game breaking. While most others are not.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Again. None of the info you have provided show a dev talking about this specific problem. general performance improvements are not indicative of the dev team acknowledging this problem. it's vague and almost mentioned as a second thought.

I do not even understand how this problem can exist. the render pipeline should always be running independent of any game logic. If it did there would not be any stutter on the camera no matter what the performance was.

Register your games, look in the tech support forum, or use the search function as I suggested.
There you might see more specific statements, depending on whether you can realise that "stutter" isn't necessarily a term the devs will use, as it doesn't really help address the issue - and just addressing "stutter" won't address (for example) slowdowns and freezes, and thus they're looking at it more as a whole, since one person's perception of something as a "stutter" might be perceived as a "freeze" by someone else, or a "slowdown" by yet another person.

And yes, you're right you don't understand how the problem can exist if you're thinking just in terms of the renderer.
It doesn't have to be in the render process at all. It can be in whatever modules are feeding data to the renderer - or even further upstream than that.
Think of it rather than being "draw this" and the renderer stuttering, that perhaps the renderer is being told to "draw......this", and the stutter is coming in in those ellipses. Visually it might *look* like a render problem, but not actually be a render issue.

Except this specified problem / bug is game breaking. While most others are not.

"Game breaking" is often misused. It slowing down the game and making it more difficult to play isn't game breaking.
Sections of the game not working *at all* is "gamebreaking".
Crashes to desktop are "gamebreaking".
The renderer outright not displaying information is "gamebreaking".

That isn't to say it can't be a priority to fix, and indeed in the absence of *actual* gamebreaking bugs it should be a priority.
Thankfully, it appears that it *is* a strong focus of the dev team.

 

[mettpawwz]

The stuttering is still there. Even with no mods, and on day 1. If you turn the speed to fastest it makes camera movement really choppy, and it lasts through the entire game.

This is NOT the same thing as late-game slowdown, as the time/day is unaffected. This is an issue that solely affects the camera's motion.

There is no way this is my hardware as I've got a really good pc and many other people in this thread have pointed this out as well.

It honestly makes the experience (which is otherwise AMAZING, it's my favourite patch so far!) really frustrating and unenjoyable. Please, please make this a priority. This was never even an issue before 2.2. I realize it's probably not easy, but this is in my opinion the biggest issue with the game right now.

Cheers, otherwise. I'm loving 2.2, and the hotfixes are tackling all the right things. You guys rock!

 

[XorioZ]

stutter verb [ I ] (NOT SMOOTH)
to work or happen in a way that is not smooth or regular:
Suddenly the engine stuttered and then it stopped completely.
Cambridge dictionary.

Also. any function, feature, problem or bug that makes a game unplayable, is what I consider game breaking.
This problem/bug makes me motion-sick to the point where I have to puke.

Again. this is a stutter from day 1. and it has been a problem for as long as i can remember.
In more detail the camera freezes for a few microseconds at the end of each day / tick.
If they work on it and have known about it for so long "6 months or more". how come it's not been fixed yet?

This is why I would like to get some form of assurance that they know about this specific problem.

Lastly... I know for a fact that the control and rendering of the camera position doesn't have to be dependent on anything else.
It's game programming 101.
And before you spout something about waiting for data.
Moving data does not take this much time. ever... it should just be a change in pointers if done correct.

Gaffa on games did a fantastic article on it some time ago called Fix Your Timestep!
https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/
it's oversimplified but I have used it to great effect. though only in 2d engines.

Now I have to say i'm giving up. But rest assured I will be back in another 6 months to complain about this again.
Thank you for replying to me and trying to explain to me what is going on.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

If you're motion sick to that degree, then you need to see a doctor. You sound like you've got some sort of severe inner ear problem.

Just because a problem is identified as existing doesn't mean that it is known where it is - and as stated in patches and dev diaries they are working on resolving this - and as said in threads regarding this very issue, some people are getting massive improvements with patches whilst others aren't; this suggests that there are multiple overlapping causes. In that sort of case untangling which one is causing the majority of the problem can be really difficult, and worse still an improvement for one group can cause deteroration for another.