Please Expand Rulers, Leaders, Advisors and Dynasties (A Petition)

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YuriiH

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Well, an unpopular opinion is below (a kind of devil's advocate).
Intro:
I have at least two examples:
1) one is my friend who bought EU4 two years ago, and keeps buying all DLCs. He likes the spirit of the game and the historical period it covers.
Moreover, he owns only EU4 and Heroes 3 at his PC, and plays them constantly as I see in Steam (with several GB save-games).
To the point, he does not make Rivals. He just does not know this feature. Playing for two years.
2) another example, please read a newcomer's thread about playing Ottomans and how he can't defeat Mameluks. I will repeat, being Ottomans. Vs. Mameluks.

Main part:
So, what I am trying to say. The game with all DLCs has SOOOOOO many parameters and features.
The majority of those parameters and features ARE NOT described in the in-game tutorial, tips are rather vague (still, none reads them most of time), and the interface is rather non-intuitive because it simply cannot be intuitive with so many things happening. (A good thing that Paradox added the most important notifications to the game).
On the top of that, recent versions of the blank game are virtually unplayable efficiently without DLCs, and Paradox does not advise to revert back to 1.5-1.8 so that a newcomer has pleasant experience with a blank game.

One should put an incredible amount of efforts just to learn how to play the game.
For a newcomer, it is a disaster. And don't say that he/she should come to forum and ask. As Wiz or Johan said, the forum is attended by 10% of buyers at most.

And imagine more parameters and features with Dynasties (which won't be tutorialized, for sure). The threshold of complexity will riser even higher.

Conclusion:
The game is extremely hard for a newcomer, and a piece of cake for an experienced player.
I would buy such DLC, as it will help to spend time during peace.
But it is up to Paradox whether it is reasonable to introduce mechanics that are not well documented or tutorialized in-game.
In addition, I won't judge for everyone, but 90% of buyers who don't attend the forum seem like to have a country simulator, rather than a dynasty simulator.
 
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Grand Historian

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Conclusion:
The game is extremely hard for a newcomer, and a piece of cake for an experienced player.
I would buy such DLC, as it will help to spend time during peace.
But it is up to Paradox whether it is reasonable to introduce mechanics that are not well documented or tutorialized in-game.
In addition, I won't judge for everyone, but 90% of buyers who don't attend the forum seem like to have a country simulator, rather than a dynasty simulator.

Dynasties and PUs are already horribly documented, explained and executed. If revisions to PU and Dynasty mechanics were made, I suspect they would most likely come with a free patch since they're already in base game, and all that would do would be to make them easier to understand for everyone. In other words, it would be a godsend to new players.

And adding in Dynasty mechanics and detail to characters does not make a game a dynasty simulator (and, really, anyone who says that they don't have a place in EU4's timeperiod needs to read a history book or two) - if that was the case, EU4 would already by a dynasty simulator, since the mechanics do already exist (albeit at incredibly vague, confusing and frustrating levels).
 
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Quaade

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Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but are you saying that we should get portraits that also reflect ruler's age? That would be incredible, but I think it might be asking a bit too much.
Nope... But can see why it was misleading :) My point was, that portraits doesn´t really add much, but won´t argue against it... The other argument was that leaders won´t evolve and devolve... Sure I hated in CK when my general got craven... But instead of having such all-around traits, they could make it traits for terrain and battles, like mountain and defensive, being a positive and negative so some generals might be bad at mountain, good at plains and better at defensive... Also, that a 2-pip general could become a 3-pip... Had a few major battles that a lousy general won and ended up winning a major war, though I had to hire another general due to AT increase instead of honouring the one that had fought and won some epic battles...
Definitely. At least something to tell us why this person is good or bad at x, and maybe add a bit more flavor for leaders (for example, two leaders might have 4 adm, but one leader has 4 adm because he has a base 3 and a trait that gives him +1 and something else, while another has 2 and a trait with +2 and a better bonus).
traits would also make viable options for events, which in turn increase flavour :)
 
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loup99

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This is a great suggestion, and hopefully the new tab is something that moves in the same direction as your suggestion.
 
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Grand Historian

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This is a great suggestion, and hopefully the new tab is something that moves in the same direction as your suggestion.

Thank you! The recent overhaul to cultures and tech is indeed encouraging that we'll be seeing base mechanics overhauled, and I believe Johan said that 1.18 is going to be as big as 1.8, so we might yet see something.
 

Quaade

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And I'll need time, until autumn, what makes me think how many things will be in this
My guess, probably not too many major changes... As I recall, they make 3 or 4 major changes in their major expansions... So it depends if they already have chosen rulers to be more involved or deem it a more minor change... But can´t really see it go hand-in-hand with the current DD... But still hoping though :) However, they do tend to listen to fans... Though they did rule this out early with the argument being something like "this isn´t CK, sry"... But it might change, since recently as someone stated... There has been some major overhauls to even long existing features which I applaud :) Perhaps going a new direction, trying stuff for EUV :-D
 
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Cri11e

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I think EU4 would do good with a rudimentery dynasti system.
I'd also LOVE a lineage/dynasty/ancestry tree so I can see who my rulers are descendents from, that would be truely eye candy worthy of EU4.
 

andristan

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Just want to add my vote for this mechanic,
also there is a ruler traits mod on steam, it adds some of the traits and education from CK II to EU4 via random events, making a great deal of difference for monarchies when the ruler changes
 
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Moarice

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Next week we'll be in the presence of our King/Khan/Chief/Sultan/Emperor/Malik, so I hope you're on your best behavior.
Maybe they finally listened to our prayers? :eek:
 
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Grand Historian

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Maybe they finally listened to our prayers? :eek:

Well, I do recall them creating a new 'Government' tab to house culture, modifiers and government types, but still kept around the crown tab for something else, so that very much could be it. Or at least something related to monarchies/dynasty/ruler, as all the functions of the previous government tab beyond advisors were shifted into another one, and clearly that can't be the only thing there.
 

Undead Martyr

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If/when they do "The Prince" DLC, and if they somehow miss adding character and flesh to the dynasty system I will be VERY upset. Seriously, Total War has a dynasty system and character traits. How could anyone cover the period defined by figures like Charles V, Gustav Adolf, Frederick the Great, Peter the Great, Maria Teresa, Elizabeth II, Suleiman the Magnificent, the freaking Borgias etc and not have actual family trees and monarchs that matter?! The Hapsburg Empire alone is argument for including something better than the arcane RNG mysticism currently used and there are quite a few other examples with substantial political implications, e.g. Prussia. Two great powers got their foot in the door from dynastic inheritances. 1500s Europe is all about the Hapsburg-Valois feud over Burgundy and Italy. Spain, Britain, Austria, Denmark, Prussia, Poland, Hungary, Portugal, Bohemia, France, were all dramatically shaped by royal inheritances.
 
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I would love some more dynastic features for more possible options for alternative history. Give more meaning to royal marriages, dynastic ties and rulers etc. I recently thought a faction system tied to dynasties might be interesting.
 

Grand Historian

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Grand Historian

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So, an abdication feature has been revealed. While I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I'm afraid that it will simply be used as means to skirt around actually adding in true development to your rulers: "Want a better ruler? Worry not! Now you can abdicate for the price of X if your heir's better and get a new one!"

That said, there's still plenty of time before release, and I imagine the new trait system will be highly moddable.
 

Onirim

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So, an abdication feature has been revealed. While I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I'm afraid that it will simply be used as means to skirt around actually adding in true development to your rulers: "Want a better ruler? Worry not! Now you can abdicate for the price of X if your heir's better and get a new one!"

That said, there's still plenty of time before release, and I imagine the new trait system will be highly moddable.
Would you mind telling what a true development system for rulers would be like so I can see if I agree with you? :p