Please enable ship mercs to be hired from where your army is, not capital

[NewbieOne]

This is mostly meant for characters from the British Isles or Scandinavia or some other places where it would take months to send ships over from home to crusade target. Or Byzzie land if you're allied to them.

Rather than paying upkeep all the way from Trondelag to Ascalon and back, you could summon some Ligurian cogs or other to Ascalon, jump to Venice, Dalmatia, Moldavia, Genoa or some other convenient junction and walk from there, perhaps to another ferrying location.

Same way, if you're from the south yourself and end up fighting in the north due to an alliance.

Or you could sail all the way back home but just simply skip waiting for your own ships to arrive. Or change ships midway.

Anything but the long wait plus ship upkeep plus army attrition after the war.

EDIT: My current suggestion for this is: a button on the army screen, next to the Disband button, Split in Half, Reorganize etc. It could be called 'Hire mercenary fleet' or something like that, only available in a coastal province. This is to avoid a huge mess of 'which sea' calculations. The mercs would appear in the same zone in which the province port is facing, i.e. the same sea zone where the trade post is/would be built.

 

[Jorlem]

Aren't the mercs you have access to hiring based on the location of your capitol? Why not change it to the location of your character, so that you can only hire mercs associated with the area where you are. Then, have them appear where your character is, instead of at your capitol.

This would also provide an incentive to actually put your character as an army leader, instead of staying safe at home.

 

[NewbieOne]

This would also provide an incentive to actually put your character as an army leader, instead of staying safe at home.

It would, but having to hire Adriatic Galleys in London (North Sea), presumably teleporting them from Venice, only to send them down to the Levant is not defensible.

 

[Archinorf]

In my opinion, Mercenaries should be always standing (like retinues) and stay semi-randomly in some provinces (based on their culture or/and the last lord for whom they fought), waiting to be hired.

You would then gain control of them when hired. If a mercenary band is closer to the battlefield, it is more interesting for you to choose them. It seems easy to implement and more realistic.

 

[Jorlem]

It would, but having to hire Adriatic Galleys in London (North Sea), presumably teleporting them from Venice, only to send them down to the Levant is not defensible.

Umm... Why would they be teleported to the North Sea? I suggested that they appear where your character is (or in the nearest sea zone, in the case of ships), and that you'd only be able to hire mercs based near where your character is.


This would likely also involve decreasing the range you can hire mercs within, adding more mercenary companies, and vastly decreasing their sizes (and by extension, their cost.) It might also need to involve reducing or cutting their regen while they are raised, to force you to hire more mercs from the local area as you loose troops. The cultures of the mercs could also be used, by making them more expensive if you are of a different culture, and again if you are a different culture group.

This in turn could lead to making invaders choose whether to hire cheap troops at home, but have to pay upkeep on the way there, or hope to be able to bolster their troops with more expensive mercs closer to the target. For the defender, there's the dilemma of whether or not to try to hire as many local mercs as possible, to gain for himself and to deny them to the enemy, but risk bankrupting himself.


On a related note, I'd also like to request a mercenary mapmode, that would show which companies can be hired in any given county.

Edit:

In my opinion, Mercenaries should be always standing (like retinues) and stay semi-randomly in some provinces (based on their culture or/and the last lord for whom they fought), waiting to be hired.

You would then gain control of them when hired. If a mercenary band is closer to the battlefield, it is more interesting for you to choose them. It seems easy to implement and more realistic.

I like this. It would mesh well with my idea (though it would involve a lot of units cluttering the map), and would eliminate the need for a merc mapmode.

 

[Sparticulous]

In my opinion, Mercenaries should be always standing (like retinues) and stay semi-randomly in some provinces (based on their culture or/and the last lord for whom they fought), waiting to be hired.

You would then gain control of them when hired. If a mercenary band is closer to the battlefield, it is more interesting for you to choose them. It seems easy to implement and more realistic.

that would be pretty cool

 

[NewbieOne]

In my opinion, Mercenaries should be always standing (like retinues) and stay semi-randomly in some provinces (based on their culture or/and the last lord for whom they fought), waiting to be hired.

You would then gain control of them when hired. If a mercenary band is closer to the battlefield, it is more interesting for you to choose them. It seems easy to implement and more realistic.

Or something to do with joining delay or with them taking time to arrive. In return, they could be arriving with full green bar morale.

Umm... Why would they be teleported to the North Sea?

Currently, if you go to the mercs tab and click 'hire', they will appear in your capital immediately (or the closest shore if ship mercs). In other words, your mercenaries appear magically in your capital on the same day you decide you need/want them.

 

[Matthias_Wlkp]

Or make them appear in a province that is the closest to your character position, or if he's not available, closest to your standing army with the highest rank leader. This is ridiculous that if your enemy is occupying your capital province, you are unable to hire mercs... With the ships - you should be able to hire them even without having a shore province.

I really like the idea of "roaming" mercs.

 

[NewbieOne]

Or make them appear in a province that is the closest to your character position, or if he's not available, closest to your standing army with the highest rank leader. This is ridiculous that if your enemy is occupying your capital province, you are unable to hire mercs... With the ships - you should be able to hire them even without having a shore province.

I really like the idea of "roaming" mercs.

Maybe a button on the army screen, next to disband. 'Hire mercenary fleet' or something like that, only available in a coastal province (to avoid a huge mess of calculations). Then, the mercs appear in the adjacent sea zone, same one in which the province port is facing, just like trade posts are built.

 

[Jorlem]

Currently, if you go to the mercs tab and click 'hire', they will appear in your capital immediately (or the closest shore if ship mercs). In other words, your mercenaries appear magically in your capital on the same day you decide you need/want them.

Ok, so I'm guessing you missed the bit in my first post in this thread, where I said that as part of my suggestion that this should be changed so that mercs appear at your character's location instead of the capitol.

 

[Dirt McStain]

I love the idea of roaming mercs. It's way more realistic. I would add to this an intrigue plot or random event where you can bribe mercs to leaving their employer, joining you against their former employer, or go rogue (e.g. try to carve out an independent realm from the sieged counties). I'm pretty sure mercs wouldn't fight to the last man if the war isn't going in their favor. They are way too reliable an army at the moment.

 

[Archinorf]

Indeed. The Prince seeming to be a major inspiration for the game, even if more related to the sixteenth century, should be more respected by making the mercenaries way less reliable.

The option to bribe them is indispensable. As well as leaving them the possibillity of turning against their employer if their are the only force available to him and he or his ennemies don't have any chance to crush them with their own forces. Such a behavior would be more likely to happen if the mercenary leader is ambitious, for example. This would no occur to commonly, for the sake of the player.
OR, the mercenaries would simply keep one or two baronies for themselves when the peace is made. It may be a more elegant and less annoying solution.

Concerning the roaming mercenaries, I also would like to see them spontaneously pillaging provinces when not hired. This could encourage a powerful ruler to hire them in order to avoid the constant harassment. I believe this was happening in History.

Of course, it would require them to be more dynamic.
By dynamic, I mean that mercenary bands would multiply in parts of the world where they are used the most. I guess it would be where money is (Yes, I'm looking at you, Italy, with all your republics).
And they would as well tend to vanish where not used, or become less costly, and possibly weaker to the point where there wouldn't be a mean for them to exist.

 

[Jorlem]

Of course, it would require them to be more dynamic.
By dynamic, I mean that mercenary bands would multiply in parts of the world where they are used the most. I guess it would be where money is (Yes, I'm looking at you, Italy, with all your republics).
And they would as well tend to vanish where not used, or become less costly, and possibly weaker to the point where there wouldn't be a mean for them to exist.

Base it on the economic mapmode. That already indicates where the richest counties are, so have them gravitate to a degree based on that.

 

[Archinorf]

Base it on the economic mapmode. That already indicates where the richest counties are, so have them gravitate to a degree based on that.

Possibly, but we may not have to use this abstraction at all. Just let the AI do its job, hiring mercs when needed and when rich enough to do so, and they will gravitate in the right places at the right times.
But I guess you were suggesting this for the startdates. In that case, this would make sense and the system would then adapt naturally to the state of the world.

EDIT : To illustrate what it would resemble to. Let's say that whenever a company of mercenaries reaches 1000 gold (meaning that it is quite popular among local ruler), it pops a new band (an old mercenary taking his independance, attract by all the opportunities. Or even a nobleman who likes risk and knows that there is gold and power to obtain).
And let's imagine a company not being hired since the last ten years. Even pillage has not put a stop to its decline. It is loosing about 200 men per year. Even its weak cost is not enough for the local rulers to be interested (Either they have way better levies than that, or are totaly broke for some reason). The company finally disappears. Voilà.

 

[Dirt McStain]

Here's what I would do:
1) Make mercs less reliable and bribable but cheaper to hire.
2) Allow you to hire mercs of a any religion and culture within diplo range. For example, the Byzzies can hire the Rus Band to beat up some Khazars. The Rus might end up taking some land for themselves, in the process, though.
3) Sharing the same religion and culture as the band leader will make them more reliable. Of course, money trumps all.
4) Since mercs are tied to religion and culture, have them hang out with their kind. For example, the Alan Band, if unlanded and unhired, will start the game hanging around de-jure Alania. If they are hired then dismissed by someone with the same religion and culture, they'll just hang out in their lands until hired by someone else. If they are hired and dismissed by someone outside both their religion and culture, they'll quickly drift back to the nearest county with the same religious group and cultural group (so, any Christian Byzantine culture group county). One there, they will more slowly drift back to the closest county that has their exact religion and/or culture. France isn't going to hire the Cuman Band because they're outside their diplo range but, if the Cumans somehow made all the way over to western Europe, why the hell not. It should be unlikely but not impossible.

 

[NewbieOne]

Here's what I would do:
1) Make mercs less reliable and bribable but cheaper to hire.

Wow, what a brilliant idea (also in its obviousness). LOL @ how come nobody has mentioned it yet, at least not that I'd know.

2) Allow you to hire mercs of a any religion and culture within diplo range. For example, the Byzzies can hire the Rus Band to beat up some Khazars. The Rus might end up taking some land for themselves, in the process, though.

I've seen Muslim rulers use Christian mercs in their holy wars. IMHO this shouldn't be possible (at least not without excommunication), at least where the band leader is the exact same religion as the defender.

Sharing the same religion and culture as the band leader will make them more reliable. Of course, money trumps all.

Brilliant. I think it should also affect the cost, perhaps.

4) Since mercs are tied to religion and culture, have them hang out with their kind. For example, the Alan Band, if unlanded and unhired, will start the game hanging around de-jure Alania. If they are hired then dismissed by someone with the same religion and culture, they'll just hang out in their lands until hired by someone else. If they are hired and dismissed by someone outside both their religion and culture, they'll quickly drift back to the nearest county with the same religious group and cultural group (so, any Christian Byzantine culture group county). One there, they will more slowly drift back to the closest county that has their exact religion and/or culture. France isn't going to hire the Cuman Band because they're outside their diplo range but, if the Cumans somehow made all the way over to western Europe, why the hell not. It should be unlikely but not impossible.

It could also be cool if unhired merc bands caused trouble and essentially became adventurers on a conquest/declared invasion CB, at least in some of the cases (depending on religious morality to a large extent).

 

[Dirt McStain]

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Although, I don't think that you should be locked out of hiring the wrong religion but, it should just be very unlikely. For example, the Umayyads could still hire the Catalan Band to slaughter Iberian Catholics but like you said, the leader could get excommunicated. Ultimately, it would be a very risky move for the Umayyads because the Catalan band would be very likely to go hostile and carve out a little Catholic realm of their own out of Catalonia.

I'd love to see some nuisance bands out there stirring up trouble.


EDIT: Mercs should also meet certain conditions in order to exist. Using the Catalan Band as an example, they would form only when Catalan begins to exist as a culture. They could also easily be Muslim if Catalonia never becomes Catholic.

 

[NewbieOne]

True, mercs are too much the cultural pioneers at this time.

I suppose religious differences should be more nuanced, e.g. Bulgarian Band going against Byzzies is not all that surprising, even perhaps in a Muslim HW/GHW or especially Invasion (invasion being religiously dependent but less religiously themed than HW/GHW), but I see them used by the Caliphs pretty often. Before crusades kicked in with military orders, as a lone Francia opposing the Abbassids that the incompetent/weak BYZ couldn't stop, I had half a mind towards executing Christian mercs caught in battle on the Muslim side, especially in a war declared by the Muslim side. Instead, I kept them in jail and didn't ransom them, except maybe captains for the 145 gold.