I don't like it.
Infantry weapons are so important that it probably would be a no brainer to always make variants for them.
Infantry weapons are so important that it probably would be a no brainer to always make variants for them.
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Please Consider: Weapon Variants
- Thread starter Wilbry
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You can say this about pretty much everything. Infantry do not get variants but they do get techs, tanks do get variants but they get no techs other then the ones that unlock the tanks.
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Variants add a unique dimension to the HOI franchise, and are an important tool for allowing players to express their creative and strategic personalities into the game.
Players want to imprint their stamp onto the choices in the game. The Division Designer and Variants System are nods to this by PDS. Weapon Variants would further allow people to express their need to design their version of their army.
Consider, I could design my infantry weapons packages to focus on the German philosophy of basing everything around the machinegun, significantly buffing support weapons and reliability. Or...I could augment my assault weapons and support weapons equally, and throw in an equal measure of anti-tank; representing my US infantry and their standard issue semi-auto rifles, and bazookas, but greatly more expensive. Or...I could simply leave them vanilla, and pump out cheaper (and thus more) packages to meet my massively expanding Soviet style conscript army needs.
Similarly I could create different variants for different divisions, such as a heavily defensive buff for my garrison battalions, deciding to give them lots of mg42s but no panzerfausts, or SMGs or such. This would come across in the variant system as several pips in support, and perhaps some in reliability.
I could redesign my infantry philosophy to meet changing conditions. I may find myself going on the attack more, so perhaps later on I make another variant giving my front line infatntry more assault weapons, but perhaps I have such a massive manpower glut and I do not care about replacing equipment I just want as many packages produced as quickly as possible so I do not buff the reliability (keeping the cost down)..and Hey Presto! I have entire divisions of Russian SMG troops.
This creates depth in gameplay, strategy, and on-going choices. The player can feel more masterful of his armed forces, make gambles regarding his overall game strategy, and even change that strategy to meet an evolving battlespace.
I can't love this idea more.
This would indeed be of great interest and add that bit more depth.
With the division designer and ability to make variants of vehicles (both shown previously), this would allow Players to literally design their entire armed forces based around play style and combat doctrine they wish to follow.
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I follow, but still disagree. Not every country replaced their basic infantry rifle, but many did. The Inf weapons tech only has about 3 levels , dated 1918, 1940 and 1942. This represents the addition of Semi Automatic Rifles, upgraded machine gun variants, handheld AT weapons such as Bazookas / PIATs, and Assault Rifles among other changes in small arms technology such as improved mines, improved grenades etc. I would prefer it to be broken down into smaller techs for pure realism's sake, but as an abstraction it's still, at least, representing a genuine upgrade of significant quantities of the small arms of a given division. It's fuzzy at the edges, I agree, but still significantly less problematic than this example because you're not replacing all of the equipment for a side-grade.
I think this would be an awesome DLC since some people don't like it and some do. So the people who do not like it, don't need to get or just turn the DLC off. So everyone is happy at that point.
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The OP proposal is simply going back to something like the HOI3 infantry technology 4 elements most of us are familiar with:
Infantry Division
Militia Anti-Tank Weapons
Militia Light Artillery
Militia Small Arms
Militia Support Weapons
While in HOI4 you have to actually build the equipments. And all these buildable equipments are already there (info from various DDs):
Infantry Equipment (3 separate types each better than the last. A branch later in that line that gives improvements to the AT capabilities of Infantry)
Support Weapons (provides increases to breakthrough and defence for leg units)
Support Equipment (radios, jeeps, pontoons, medical kits, spades and other such items)
Artillery Equipment, Rocket-Artillery Equipment
Anti-Tank Equipment
Anti-Air Equipment
Trucks
From DD# 19: The equipment you have in your divisions is the one that affects things like what your technical capabilities are, like the base for soft attack and hard attack, but the type of battalion determines your capabilities for recon, terrain penalties, organisation etc. If you lack enough equipment, your units will fight with far less efficiency,
Infantry Division
Militia Anti-Tank Weapons
Militia Light Artillery
Militia Small Arms
Militia Support Weapons
While in HOI4 you have to actually build the equipments. And all these buildable equipments are already there (info from various DDs):
Infantry Equipment (3 separate types each better than the last. A branch later in that line that gives improvements to the AT capabilities of Infantry)
Support Weapons (provides increases to breakthrough and defence for leg units)
Support Equipment (radios, jeeps, pontoons, medical kits, spades and other such items)
Artillery Equipment, Rocket-Artillery Equipment
Anti-Tank Equipment
Anti-Air Equipment
Trucks
From DD# 19: The equipment you have in your divisions is the one that affects things like what your technical capabilities are, like the base for soft attack and hard attack, but the type of battalion determines your capabilities for recon, terrain penalties, organisation etc. If you lack enough equipment, your units will fight with far less efficiency,
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I think we might be missing the point of this suggestion.
It's not - "we want to build X advanced weapon". It's more - I want to configure my unit to emphasise fire power on the attack or AT power or whatever.
The example to my mind isn't so much putting a more advanced weapon, but more something like the Soviets did of equipping whole companies with SMGs for assault or something along those lines.
It's not - "we want to build X advanced weapon". It's more - I want to configure my unit to emphasise fire power on the attack or AT power or whatever.
The example to my mind isn't so much putting a more advanced weapon, but more something like the Soviets did of equipping whole companies with SMGs for assault or something along those lines.
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If this happens, the next logical step is creating a mod that takes your custom Infantry, Tanks, and faction and generates Company of Heroes 3 with your custom faction.
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OP's idea would add a lot to the game. There was discussion in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-variants-like-tanks-planes-and-ships.905205/
In the end I tried to rephrase my thoughts:
Heavy Infantry vs Light; Mechanised; motorised; early war vs mid and late war; expeditionary forces. There were many Toe in WW2. But ...
I will rephrase with my premises:
1. HoI 4 has a variant system for equipment that will affect units like Tank battalion stats
2. Infantry is the most numerous and central unit to the game, and war.
3. Infantry squads; platoons and battalions had variant Toe OOBs in real life that.
4. The variants in squad size, and amount of weapons are not optimally covered by equipment Tech in Hoi.
5. The variant system could cover it.
6. Adding an Infantry battalion variant system would add flavour, immersion, realism.
7. It need not unbalance the game.
examples.
A. Squad size. Low on manpower squad infantry understrength should get a combat minus. Reduce squad size to still get a minus but less so to org morale for having an 8-10 man squad only have 5 or 6.
B. Late war, low on tanks. Give infantry +1 or +2 quantity of hand held AT.
C. Manpower not an issue- have large squads like the USA did.
In the end I tried to rephrase my thoughts:
Heavy Infantry vs Light; Mechanised; motorised; early war vs mid and late war; expeditionary forces. There were many Toe in WW2. But ...
I will rephrase with my premises:
1. HoI 4 has a variant system for equipment that will affect units like Tank battalion stats
2. Infantry is the most numerous and central unit to the game, and war.
3. Infantry squads; platoons and battalions had variant Toe OOBs in real life that.
4. The variants in squad size, and amount of weapons are not optimally covered by equipment Tech in Hoi.
5. The variant system could cover it.
6. Adding an Infantry battalion variant system would add flavour, immersion, realism.
7. It need not unbalance the game.
examples.
A. Squad size. Low on manpower squad infantry understrength should get a combat minus. Reduce squad size to still get a minus but less so to org morale for having an 8-10 man squad only have 5 or 6.
B. Late war, low on tanks. Give infantry +1 or +2 quantity of hand held AT.
C. Manpower not an issue- have large squads like the USA did.
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As far as I can deduce here, the main argument against it seems to be having to build 1000 diverse infantry weaponry to replace the 1000 rifle weaponry when most of the 1000 diverse will still be rifles, thus causing you to have to build whole divisions worth of equipment to change only a small portion of it.
Why not just edit the infantry divisions and have them require more infantry supplies....
Infantry with basic rifles and nothing else... have them require 500 supplies to be fully effective.
Add in support weaponry and MGs and all the fancy guns and the division now has better stats but requires 1500 supplies to fully supply.
Let the tech deal with infantry supplies, let the supply cost do the rest.
Much simpler than having different production lines.
Why not just edit the infantry divisions and have them require more infantry supplies....
Infantry with basic rifles and nothing else... have them require 500 supplies to be fully effective.
Add in support weaponry and MGs and all the fancy guns and the division now has better stats but requires 1500 supplies to fully supply.
Let the tech deal with infantry supplies, let the supply cost do the rest.
Much simpler than having different production lines.
Krask's point is particularly relevant with regards to integrating foreign supplies.
In the proposed HOI4 system, you do this by choosing the battalions/companies forming your division (including support battalions) and making sure to build the equipments they need.
It's that way you can emphasize on soft attack, hard attack, artillery, anti-tank, AA, breakthrough and defence, recon, speed, etc...
No no- the idea is to use the vaient to change the infantry toe- no need to build mg34 and mg 42 any different than is.
Just changing the organisation (eg two machine guns in a squad instead of 1 like Germans did) changes the stats; and maybe how much supply and production needs.
I don't see what is so bad about this idea. When you build an upgraded package It just replaces the old packages and the old ones get sent back to storage to be used if there is not enough of the new package to go around.
I found a problem with the system though. Let's say you have three packages A,B, and C.
Package A - normal line gear
Package B - heavy assault gear
Package C - light gear for mountains and rear areas
How would you set it up so that your assault troops only reinforce with package B and not package C?
I found a problem with the system though. Let's say you have three packages A,B, and C.
Package A - normal line gear
Package B - heavy assault gear
Package C - light gear for mountains and rear areas
How would you set it up so that your assault troops only reinforce with package B and not package C?
By having it make the variations to the unit rather than to the weapons directly.
So, my Infantry is standard.
My Assault Infantry is [Assault Weapons +3] [Anti-tank +1] [Reliability +2]
My Trench Dudes are [Support Weapons +2] [Anti-tank +2]
Supplies required depend on upgrades. Easy.
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You can specify, which equipment a division is allowed to use.
In the Japan WWW Daniel showed it. In the division builder there is a tab, where you can then uncheck the equipment this division can not get.
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Oh thanks! So now I don't see an issue at all! Just to be clear, this isn't a varient system where you have 10 different types of Kar 98 rifles but rather a varient to the package of equipment given to infantry so that an infantry group might receive more MG 34s and AT weapons in their package than packages used by other infantry groups.
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This whole idea of different 'packages' is a massive over complication.
Your units will have more MGs? They simply require more infantry equipment. No need to have industry lines for every 'type' of infantry setup you want to make.
Infantry equipment is abstracted to cover everything from mortars to rifles, SMGs, etc etc.
If you want more heavily equipped units you just change your division template for those units and they will have higher stats but need more supplies.
It could literally be that simple.
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I think you dont have any kind of knowledge of the doctrines used by different countries in ww2 apart from what you can see in history channel if you say that. OP pretend to simulate even better the differences of squad compostion and doctrines between countries than you can currently. Right now you get bonuses there and there in an abstract 4 way doctrine tree that doesnt impact ic consumption.
This way also you can give to your assault units certain equipment better suited to its job at lower IC cost or increased reliability. For example, you want marine divisions with better than average assault weapons and reliability at the expense of anti tank weapons or paradropers with increased support weapons to capture and hold while the main troops get there.
you can also model the MG squad level of german doctrine or the semiautomatic M1 Garand of the american doctrine... etc.
This will likely be a mod so if you are not interested in this, you are not forced to get it. There is no reason to keep something simple if you can improve the gameplay and make the strategic potential even deeper.
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