Please boost rebels

[Mrakvampire]

With addition of drill / professionalism mechanic rebel armies are even less powerfull.
For reference I observed several AI only games and it seems that rebels have even harder times now, rare rebellion have any chance of success.

Maybe to compensate addition of this new mechanic rebel sizes should be universally increased at least by +10% or +15%? Or better, give rebels extra +10% morale.

 

[CoolSpin]

Because its always fun when a rebel stack greater than your force limit is unbeatable..

 

[Siu-King**]

Rebel already can whack the crap out of your army in the early game with a few lucky rolls

 

[Mrakvampire]

Because its always fun when a rebel stack greater than your force limit is unbeatable..

Why not? If you somehow managed to get your people so pissed off that whole country rises against you - why not?

Rebel already can whack the crap out of your army in the early game with a few lucky rolls

You play only early game and then stop playing? After 80-100 years from game start any rebels are just cannon fodder for any army - it's simple math, combination of discipline bonuses, military ideas and professionalism is HUGE.

 

[Incompetent]

Sure, and then you can tell every AI country to take Humanism; it's only fair.

 

[Mrakvampire]

Sure, and then you can tell every AI country to take Humanism; it's only fair.

Any AI country that is prone to expansion already nearly guaranteed to take humanism. I'm not talking about tweaking unrest values, only strength of rebel armies that already revolted.

 

[Bebou]

Not that it hasn't been said before but yeah there is nothing more fun than conquering an OPM and then watching that one province spawn a rebellion bigger than your army hahahahaha. Where were all those men while their capital was being sieged? Good one matey. In the late game they will only ever be a minor annoyance. it wont matter even if they give them those buffs they'll still be fodder.

 

[CoolSpin]

Why not? If you somehow managed to get your people so pissed off that whole country rises against you - why not?

War of the Roses?

 

[Mrakvampire]

Not that it hasn't been said before but yeah there is nothing more fun than conquering an OPM and then watching that one province spawn a rebellion bigger than your army hahahahaha. Where were all those men while their capital was being sieged? Good one matey. In the late game they will only ever be a minor annoyance. it wont matter even if they give them those buffs they'll still be fodder.

I see your logic flawed. If some kind of mechanic is supposed to do X, but is just Y there are two ways to act:
1. Make sure that mechanic actually do X, doesn't matter early game or late game
2. Remove this mechanic entirely

Right now rebels are more or less ok in early game. I think that rebels should be serious threat even in late game.
Yes, sure WC-fans, I would imagine, would love to see rebel mechanic removed entirely to get rid of this annoying hassle. I'm not fan of EU4 WC runs

 

[Sfan]

You think rebels are ok early game because you probably never played a difficult start.
Having a 8k forcelimit and having rebellions made of 16k men because you fully annexed a country with 10k FL is really annoying. Pushing it further would remove certain starts/strats from the game. I want to play Theodoro without having to turn Sunni, for instance.

 

[Mrakvampire]

To appease to 'difficult starts that don't like their playstyle challenged' I can change my suggestion to:

Increase rebel morale by 5% per Age (so Age of Reformation give +5%, Age of Absolutism by +10% and Age of Revolutions by +15% total). In addition to existing stats, of course.

 

[Sfan]

Now that's an excellent suggestion. Either that or increasing the already existing impact of miltech. Rebels destroy you early, and are meaningless late.

 

[Bebou]

I see your logic flawed. If some kind of mechanic is supposed to do X, but is just Y there are two ways to act:
1. Make sure that mechanic actually do X, doesn't matter early game or late game
2. Remove this mechanic entirely

Right now rebels are more or less ok in early game. I think that rebels should be serious threat even in late game.
Yes, sure WC-fans, I would imagine, would love to see rebel mechanic removed entirely to get rid of this annoying hassle. I'm not fan of EU4 WC runs

I don't see how my logic is flawed with your explanation. Rebels are meant to be a game mechanic but not one that makes the game unplayable. what you were suggesting above is getting my 7k army limit stomped by 15k rebels with buffs. no thanks. The change you made to your request further down in the thread wont matter because by late game armies are so drilled and stacking so many modifiers they'll still melt rebels.

I don't enjoy WC myself interestingly enough, but what I enjoy even less is not being able to expand due to rebels of my neighbour being much stronger than my actual neighbour.

 

[Mrakvampire]

I don't enjoy WC myself interestingly enough, but what I enjoy even less is not being able to expand due to rebels of my neighbour being much stronger than my actual neighbour.

So problem is that you don't like to have game mechanics, that makes your life as a conqueror a little bit harder?
And yes, why actual rebels can't be way more powerful/numerous than regular army? French Revolution anyone? China's frequent uprisings (they had so many of them in history, pick any)?

 

[Sfan]

I think you don't understand the problem some people have.
I would be ok with having 40k rebels instead of 30k when I take a 100% peacedeal in 1700, or even 60k. That would make humanist even more OP, but that would just be a nerf to conquest play without humanist. That's making life as a conqueror a little bit harder.
However, when you take 6 provinces from Crimea as Theodoro, you have a FL of 8k, and the rebels stacks is already 16k. Do you really want to make it 20k? That's not making life of a conqueror a little bit harder. That's destroying life of a survivor.

 

[Mrakvampire]

However, when you take 6 provinces from Crimea as Theodoro, you have a FL of 8k, and the rebels stacks is already 16k. Do you really want to make it 20k? That's not making life of a conqueror a little bit harder. That's destroying life of a survivor.

For starters - if you perform a conquest of territory greater than yours original in ONE war you should realistically take HUGE penalties for that. And in game terms I think that you should be ready to handle consequences. Moreover, if I was a dev of EU4, I would tie overextension to your existing development, like every non-cored point of development higher than yours would double over-extension (i.e. if your country has 50 dev total and you conquered provinces with 80 dev, you would get 50% + 30%*2 = 110% overextension).
Just to make sure that total ahistorical bullshit is actually HARD.

No nation in history ever done this.

What I do actually want to have in EU4 is that rebel mechanic stay viable in mid and especially late game. For starters something like this can tip balance significantly, I think:

Increase rebel morale by 5% per Age (so Age of Reformation give +5%, Age of Absolutism by +10% and Age of Revolutions by +15% total). In addition to existing stats, of course.

Yes, major powers like Ottos, France, Russia, etc. will still be able to crush any rebellion, but rebels will get a fighting chance against isolated stacks (i.e. when major power is at war and can't spare more than one stack of their armies to fight rebels)

 

[Sfan]

Moreover, if I was a dev of EU4, I would tie overextension to your existing development, like every non-cored point of development higher than yours would double over-extension (i.e. if your country has 50 dev total and you conquered provinces with 80 dev, you would get 50% + 30%*2 = 110% overextension).

So from a gameplay perspective, you want to make early game expansion slower, but lategame blobbing faster? I should be able to get a 100% peacedeal with Imperialism, full Diplo and 100 absolutism and only take like 10% OE because that's 500 dev and I have 5k? I think noone wants that.

 

[Mrakvampire]

So from a gameplay perspective, you want to make early game expansion slower, but lategame blobbing faster? I should be able to get a 100% peacedeal with Imperialism, full Diplo and 100 absolutism and only take like 10% OE because that's 500 dev and I have 5k? I think noone wants that.

Hmmmm... I've never mentioned that I want to make late game expansion faster.
I specifically stated that if you conquer more than you already have your expansion should be nerfed (IMHO). I've never told that it should be made cheaper if you have a lot of dev.

 

[Bebou]

So problem is that you don't like to have game mechanics, that makes your life as a conqueror a little bit harder?
And yes, why actual rebels can't be way more powerful/numerous than regular army? French Revolution anyone? China's frequent uprisings (they had so many of them in history, pick any)?

Not really it is more that it doesnt make much sense to me. The number of rebels, imo, should be proportionate to the development i take. I think that at this point it is proportional to the development of my entire nation. If I take liege as france i shouldnt be looking at such a massive rebel stack from a province that only managed to support a 7k army. That's more or less it. You are comparing OPMs to huge countries and their entire populations rising up in rebellion to separatists.

 

[indika_tates]

Yes please because I don't have enough rebel "exports" from the AI every time I conquer a province. I need more beninese separatists on my borders