please add some downside to being nomadic

[nanomage]

Hi guys, I would like to request adding something to serve as a downside for nomadic government.
I mean, look, all the others do have some advantages and some tradeoffs, though often silly

Feudal lords can field huge levies, but they need time to build up up and get those stack running, and their levies are of poor quality.

Tribals can get magic stacks out of nowhere and build essentially for free, but their armies are a loose conglomeration of blue stacks where noone wants to take the hit first and EG can be absolutely disastrous.

Republics swim in money but they don't get levies to speak of and are extremely limited in tyranny options.

Muslims get absolutely brilliant succession law, free retract & duchy revoke, godsent +20 opinion bonus but decadence. Okay decadence doesn't really work but at least it's there and it's supposed to work and be a drawback for them. Without it, perhaps the downside is that everyone and their dog bangs all your wives all the time.

Now, hordes field the best army types in the world for free and right from the start, with extremely quick and cheap reinforcement, (whereas to others they come as a limited and costly addition to shit levies, and reinforce costs kill you), they have extremely simplified and easy vassal management, another brilliant succession law, a good set of CB's but nothing to offset this, nothing at all.

Perhaps someone who usually starts 1066 can see some weakness in nomads, but 769 and 867 they're just godmode.

Please add something that would make playing as a nomad harder.

 

[DraconicEpic]

Hordes are just outright broken. It is basically EU4 invading CK2 while no one decided to actually balance the mechanics. Nomads are basically a different game compared to other governments given how vassal/character management are practically pointless. Republics are more similar to Feudal/Tribal than nomads are. Worse part yet is because of the new system, it isn't rare to see nomads become Sunni! Sunni Nomads are just broken. If there is anything Paradox needs to fix, it is to prevent nomads from changing religions so easily. Also the fact the half of the technologies are useless to nomads makes them specialize even more republics do. Who needs technology when you can throw all you're points into Seiging and Cavalry!

 

[.Me]

Hordes are just outright broken. It is basically EU4 invading CK2 while no one decided to actually balance the mechanics. Nomads are basically a different game compared to other governments given how vassal/character management are practically pointless. Republics are more similar to Feudal/Tribal than nomads are. Worse part yet is because of the new system, it isn't rare to see nomads become Sunni! Sunni Nomads are just broken. If there is anything Paradox needs to fix, it is to prevent nomads from changing religions so easily. Also the fact the half of the technologies are useless to nomads makes them specialize even more republics do. Who needs technology when you can throw all you're points into Seiging and Cavalry!

I agree, and also I want to say that any time I play, within fifty years all the steppes are always monopolized by a single big horde, and thanks to this broken system which makes that the hordes may convert territories Instantly to their owner culture and religion, the steppes are now a single mono-culture and mono-religion blob (usually jewish or sunni). For this reason currently I'm playing with horse lords disabled.

 

[DraconicEpic]

I agree, and also I want to say that any time I play, within fifty years all the steppes are always monopolized by a single big horde, and thanks to this broken system which makes that the hordes may convert territories Instantly to their owner culture and religion, the steppes are now a single mono-culture and mono-religion blob (usually jewish or sunni). For this reason currently I'm playing with horse lords disabled.

In my current iron-man campaign I've absolutely aggravated with nomads. Playing a nation starting around with Kiev area prior to 1000 is just annoying because the hordes are so overpowered. I had crushed Khazaria's army and he magically builds a new one in literally a month. How is any government type suppose to compete with someone who is spawning super-cheap troops out of thin air? Paradox seriously needs to make the nomad horde units cost way more. They are simply way to cheap at the moment. I'll be perfectly honest, I think horse lords is more aggravating than sunset invasions.

P.S. I remember the days when the the Arabian Empire and Byzantine Empire were scary, but now the only thing I find scary is Khazaria since they almost always blob out uncontrollably and there is jack all you can do about it. I also remember when you couldn't magically walk from Greece to Italy...

 

[DraconicEpic]

First of all, I finally noticed something stupid that helps the nomadic hordes be completely out of control: allied to all clans and they have access to vassal levies. The reason this is so godly overpowered is because it is like tribal governments having basically all stages of tribal organization (best of both worlds). Because of this, nomads can grown out of control sense they end up with huge stacks that simply can't be dealt with. Only thing saving pagans is the pagan homeland attrition; but the moment you go reformed, you simply either die or get subjugated.

Seriously, how are you suppose to beat 16k+ troops (mostly heavy cavalry and special units) before 900! West European pagans are just screwed. This does not make the game fun, only frustrating. When to nations of equal size fight it should be a close(ish) battle! This was not the case for me and I just got stomped (badly). I can't say I lost in terms of skill as I had really good commanders (15+ with great traits for commanders) with will managed armies and I fought in defensive terrain, as the defender of course. I lost in terms of "the game shitting on you." Given this is done by an AI, I can only imagine how broken it will be for players.

Player: Ruthenia

 

[nanomage]

Thank you all for feedback on this. I think awfully powerful nomads are one of the more broken things this release and I'm glad to see people agreeing with it.
I'd also like to add that if there is a single mechanic that makes nomad stack ultra-powerful it is the insane reinforcement speed, even in hostile territories. Even if the nomads die to attrition in godforsaken arctic desert, their stack regenerate with enough speed to keep them significntly over the supply limit, and with more than enough speed to be up to full capacity in no time after any battle.
This is the single most frustrating thing about fighting them right now and I honestly have no idea as to why it might have been introduced.