Playing Soviet Union and START decisions (?)

[Pang Bingxun]

But I building land forts to stop the Wehrmacht. So I need to stay with my Defensive World View. Besides, I don't want another dissent from policy change just to save reducing the dissent from rushed slider moves.

The 6 % disent are paid of after 200 days. You save 0.03% dissent a day, so after 4 year you have saved of (43.2-6) % dissent. That is more than 2 additional sliders moves. The small discount for land forts seem of low relevance, the manpower advantage would seem more important. The frustated expansionist idea however gives +3% on Org. If you ask me frustated expansiost is a no brainer for soviet union if declining the purges.

How do you translate from getting a 50% dissent (for avoiding the purge) to partisan levels reduced 50% MEANING THAT EQUALS NO PARTISANS EXIST? As to the laws of English, it only means Closed Society will have "half the partisans that are normally associated with 50% dissent". In short, its the same as having 25% revolt risk over your whole country. SO, THERE SHOULD STILL BE PARTISANS!

What i would like to call local dissent muss rise above the threshold of 40% for partisans to occur. You can change the threshold in \db\misc.txt.

Sorry, my calculator has a divide sign as does every handheld calculator I have ever seen (and it will always be a divide sign) and I just multiply out if doing "to the power of". The fact that some smart ass designers of modern gadgets missed learning basic arithmetic and so are showing guys like you that convention doesn't matter will never be approved by me. That ^ on a calculator may mean "scroll up the paper".

Scientitic calculators obligatory used in school were capable of Power to and many other funktions decades ago. Try e^(125/142) by simple multiplication and have fun. :rofl:

 

[Commander666]

The small discount for land forts seem of low relevance, the manpower advantage would seem more important. The frustated expansionist idea however gives +3% on Org. If you ask me frustated expansiost is a no brainer for soviet union if declining the purges.

The land fort discount is 10% so building 20 of those (4 places x 5 each) is a good discount. But what really matters to me is that they all get constructed before Hitler strikes and they just will because of that discount. If they succeed as planned, and stop the Wehrmacht in its tracks (as I'm hoping) that might be highly relevant. My SU got over 3000 MP and I have built a big army now. So I not concerned about shifting anything for that reason.

I should have changed some policies long ago but since I did the brainless decision to skip the purge, next chance I get I would instead move to Militarist Focus for Leader XP gain and -5% upgrading. I managed to get all the air force upgraded and am ahead of Germany in several important techs. Advancing slider to Standing Army has really helped but the job of upgrading my many ARM will be a huge one that requires every upgrade discount I can find. So yah, got to make priorities.

Scientitic calculators obligatory used in school were capable of Power to and many other funktions decades ago. Try e^(125/142) by simple multiplication and have fun. :rofl:

What's so difficult about e^0.88028169014 (Opps! calculator ran out of display space!). Does it need to be that exact? How about I round off to 0.88? Yah, don't get me to give the exact time to fire retro rockets for a few second burst. I'll either skip off the atmosphere... or burn up. :blink:

Anyway, having skipped the Great Purge is showing up more consequences. I have no cores on Finland but got the Winter War Event (so took all the country since I did not wish to discriminate between what was mine; and what was theirs).

But my SU also has no cores in Latvia and Estonia (not sure if there should be) or the 3 provinces in Romania. But there were no Events for those Soviet land grabs . Now its mid-May/41 and I decided I should just DOW Latvia + Estonia. Figure if Hitler really so dumb to attack me (given I have land forts, more divisions than him, more INT as he probably will keep half the Luftwaffe in France) and our INF, MOTS and ARM are of even moderness) THEN I THINK THIS SUDDEN SHIFT IN THE NEW FRONT LINE just before Barbarossa will really mess up the Wehrmacht's plans. :happy:

Since so much in this game has gone unusual (but real interesting) I really not sure about what the future might be. Maybe Hitler will not attack until next year. That would be great so I can get in your recommended Frustrated Expansionist policy change. At least the name fits. I am frustrated because I don't get those fantastic Romanian provinces, and will need to fight my way uphill while crossing a river. Maybe I can coup them and take them out of the Axis that way - if I don't get DOWed next month. The future will reveal all.

Thanks for all the good advice.

 

[Commander666]

Sounds like hell to me.

Updating further on this unusual game and generally replying to all counter comments and suggestions for more efficient build scheme or different specific choices regarding policy/minister changes.... I feel I must have done much right even if my different choices are not perhaps supported mathematically.

The reason for my claim is that the German AI (I'll refer to that as Hitler) simply refused to attack me. Yup, the coward cancelled Barbarossa!

I would have cancelled that attack in June/41 too because it would have been suicidal for the Wehrmacht. If provoked, my T-28s would have been at the gates of Berlin in a week due to a completely unguarded Baltic coastline once having broken thru Memel. And the fact the remnants of Lithuania still exist, the Wehrmacht units facing me further east stationed on the original old Poland line were so far away that they could not have flanked me. The fact that Germany has all of Poland (did not share with me) is not in their favour strategically speaking as regards any war breaking out.

But now it is mid-July 1942, and again Hitler has been complaining about the Red strength which I hold.... instead of being a man and attacking me. He did greatly further the "tech gap" that existed slightly last year but critically grew in Germany's favour last 12 months. Germany had completed research on Inf-1941 and Improved Motorized months before I even started researching them. But now I am just finishing the upgrading of the last of my many IMP MOTs - so again taking one of the advantages away from Hitler. The fact that I still got all 1939-inf while he may have upgraded to 1941-inf by now does not bother me. It is quite clear that my leg infantry will not be involved much in battle at all if we get to war because the blitzkrieg possibilities of my mobile divisions will soon leave my leg infantry far behind.

So Pang, either Hitler is a coward, my game is broken, or I just built such a good Soviet Union that any sensible AI capable of repeating your mathematics simply refuses to play with me.

PS: Maybe I need to DOW Germany in 2 weeks (when my last MOTs upgrade) which will be August 1st, 1942. I now have "+30% Army Intel" and looking at the map can only exclaim "Sweet mamma!"

 

[Pang Bingxun]

You need to play with historical event outcomes. MR pact obviosly never triggered properly, thus mixing up a lot.

 

[Commander666]

You need to play with historical event outcomes. MR pact obviosly never triggered properly, thus mixing up a lot.

I did play historical until avoiding the Great Purge. The only thing I did in the formative years was Spanish Intervention as per true history. I had nothing to due with the fact that Franco lost. That was where the ahistorical track may have developed but that's minor to the game triggers.

And if correct, Anschluss occurs before the Purge, right? The fact that it did not happen and Austria instead joined the Axis is also nothing to do with me. My decision to purge or not purge Soviet's leaders is hardly a major historical difference. So I am not responsible that Austria DOWed Poland in 1938, France fell in 1939, Norway in 1940, and the coward Hitler refused to attack me in either 1941 or 1942.

I did the historical winter war, and my annexing Finland all occurred after the AI went on a crazy Axis alliance setup and then rushed into war (long before the Winter War came).

So, I not the one playing ahistorically. Anyway, fact of MR pact triggering or not (and Germany has all of Poland) has nothing to do with math calculations and the German AI decision that I am too dangerous to attack. That decision is being based on army strengths and strategic situation only because if I had half my units (can disband them just to provoke the AI) I guarantee Hitler will attack me then. He's not (yet) because doing up until now is clearly suicidal for Germany.

All the rest of the world has historically gone to war. Japan was late doing Pearl Harbour but that is nothing. Siam joined. All history is repeating nicely. Only my SU is built so well, I think, that Hitler dares not attack me. And looking at the map using +30% army Int it is perfectly clear why the AI is not attacking yet. The AI would have to be mathematically dysfunctional to make that DOW on me this year. For sure it intends to attack me... once it gets far enough ahead technologically and difference in unit moderness to give it a reasonable chance to win. So, the reason is because of how strong I built my Russia.... and not lack of trigger.

Added clarification: Above was wrong regarding relevant times for Anschluss and the Great Purge. The purge did come first. Below time line from game saves clarifies all.

 

[Commander666]

Another consequence of avoiding the Great Purge?

I checked the history of this game. Here are the facts:

1) Franco lost (not my fault).

2) 1938-03-04 I decide to avoid Great Purge.

3) I can't find exact date but next was "Anschluss goes different" because Austria will instead join the Axis.

4) Czechoslovakia refuses to concede, and so war breaks out.

5) 1938-10-03 Poland joins the war. The Checks and Poles get defeated.

6) 1939-04-01 France DOWs Germany, Wehrmacht makes a good attack, Vichy happens a month so later.

7) Italy joins and drives into Africa as per usual AI game outcome, but all a year early.

8) 1941 the Winter War comes on time, but I annex Finland.

9) 1941 June Barbarossa does not happen.

9) 1942 Barbarossa also does not happen but Japan does all her historic DOWs (just somewhat late).

So - on the surface it seems Franco losing might be the original cause but I think we agree that is a mmior trigger, as human player had no actual involvement other than Event for interventionism, right?


IF SO, then it appears the next trigger was my missing Great Purge to result in changed Anschluss. However, that is dumb because Great Purge is no change what so ever as regards any political borders.

I don't think you are right that triggers changed on account of my missing the Purge. But certainly the Anschluss changing later is a major trigger to result in the Checks being defiant; and so Poland goes to war to assist them. By the way, that action preceded a GoI from Britain. Anyway, both the Checks and Poles are defeated (before any MR pact can occur) so Germany has all of conquered Poland, and Austria a couple extra provinces.

But France will DOW Germany in 1939, so resulting in Hitler's conquest moving ahead by a year. All other later triggers regarding Hungary and Bulgaria taking bits of Romania occur properly. Only Yugoslavia does not get involved and remains out of Axis, and no problem for anybody.

The question is: "Was it my missing the Purge that created a changed Anschluss (definite reason for the following changed triggers with Sudetenland - and so Poland), or is Hitler simply afraid to attack me because I built my army so well?"

I have an easy test. I can reload about June 1/41 and disband ALL my MOTs, half my ARM, half my INT and the 6 transports in the Baltic. Then we will see if Hitler postpones Barbarossa because he was a coward (as I think because of my superior army build) or was it really is a trigger. At stake is your mathematical advice how I should have built versus what I did build my way. Sound fair?

 

[jpd]

Heh. The game can turn a-historical in quite bizarre ways. In my current ongoing campaign as Germany, I wasn't the one starting the global conflict. Great Brittain was, by declaring war on Japan before the MR pact ....

That triggered Japan to declare war on the US and Holland, thus plunging me into war with the US at the Danzig event It had it's upside though, as the Japan AI was quite eager to join the axis at that time, netting me a whole slew of naval blueprints ....

Naturally, I wasn't all that eager to start messing with the Soviets, so I just maintained a defensive line and waited for Stalin to make his move .... which he did in the autumn of 1944.

As far as Franco losing goes. That's just the consequence of the civil war event command. If Franco gets Madrid, he usually wins. If he doesn't get Madrid, he usually loses. Franco winning or losing has no influence whatsoever in how the other pre-war events behave. There is a small percentage chance setup in the event choices that allows the AI to pick an a-historical option. Something like 1% or so. Same with the soviet winter war. There is a small percentage chance that the AI will opt for full anexation of Finland, instead of merely taking the border provinces. As Germany, I always like it when the AI takes Finland, because it means that, after the Bitter Peace, I no longer have to sail convoys to Norway

 

[Commander666]

Yes, the game can turn very ahistorical in many ways for any reason regarding changed triggers. But I doubt my missing Purge was the cause of it.

However, if human plays SU, there is a very strong trigger for Germany to do Barbarossa, right? And in this case, the AI Germany was exceptionally advantaged by getting Poland and France eliminated a year earlier. IF ANYTHING, it would not have surprised me if Barbarossa had occurred in 1940 (and I probably would have been whooped due to disbanding all my INF at start).

I am actually more thinking about the other very important factor in the game - the AI's correct and well known ability to decide to make attack or not. While even the human does probing attacks (and bad attacks too) certainly the AI does same. But the decision to go to war - or not - is a much more major one. I don't buy that German AI did not DOW me because of "changed triggers" because the goal to beat SU is itself a major over riding force.

And whether or not the trigger for Barbarossa fires once 1941 arrives (so it can fire) certainly is decided by analysis of enemy strength, I believe. That is logical and may even have higher hard code controlling it. The AI is not so stupid to get into an obvious suicidal war, probably.

Looking at the map I see that I had more than double the divisions on frontline than did Germany, and I had land forts placed and a far more effective air force (as I built 40 new bases) while the Luftwaffe had far less aircraft it could position effectively due to the Germany/SU border moved further east than is usual with historic set up. Lodz and Breslau airbases are now a long ways from the border, and the AI doesn't construct new bases.

So how can Barbarossa trigger to attack me - with obvious insurmountable frontline? While the trigger exists, I think it will not fire if Germany has a 1:3 disadvantage. So I offer to eliminate half my army and air force to see it that changes the AI's reaction; and make the point that I think I did a very good build up by just doing it independently. Saying Germany not attacking just because of trigger does not account for fact that the decision to attack is logical enough to evaluate obvious strength differences first, IMO.

 

[unmerged(526990)]

I just looked up the event (#20007, if you're interested) in what I think is the correct file for the vanilla German AI. The triggers on it are fairly complex and involve a lot to do with existing wars and alliances for Germany. I think it also compares Germany's land area compared to the USSR, and does a lot of checks on the ownership of some individual provinces. There's no comparison of armed forces strength though, from what I can tell. Remember that the AI events override any other decision making that the AI does - so these scripted events can force the AI into what would be a decision that it wouldn't make it left to itself.

 

[Commander666]

That is very interesting. So - between my SU taking all of Finland and no Anschluss (Austria instead Axis member) the German territory decreased significantly while SU's increased over normal - so supporting an unfavourable decision to launch Barbarossa. That seems very logical.

Also - remembering back to avoiding the Purge, SU does not get six events regarding gearing for war. While that is slightly different topic, the thing that also happened is SU also got no events regarding demanding territory from Latvia, Estonia and Romania - although that is not part of the "decline Great Purge Event". I just saying that this also happened somehow, but I don't know why. Not sure if that would affect decisions regarding Barbarossa. If anything it should support Barbarossa firing because the SU situation is less - at least province wise.

But in late May 1941 I rapidly invaded (and annexed) Latvia and Estonia which radically changed the German/Russian border just before Barbarossa might have launched. The remnants of Lithuania still exist. I felt that might have affected things only because it suddenly changed the OoB because now it was a new situation needing Germany to react to the different border and shift units. At the time I felt that either my DOWs on the Baltic States would provoke Hitler to DOW me then - or trip him up and so cancel/delay Barbarossa at least until the Wehrmacht could adjust to the new situation. I was surprised I got away with it - and then disappointed that Barbarossa did not happen.

I guess I should have DOWed Romania too (also in the Axis) to get their 3 provinces that historically SU claims - and then I definitely would have had a Barbarossa! .

But the other strange thing about this game is that SU has NO CORES in either Finland, Baltic States or Romania. What removed the cores, I wonder? I'm positive SU has cores there, don't they?

EDIT: I did reload the game (at point in end May 1941 when Latvia is annexed and I just finishing off Estonia) and then disbanded half my air force, half my ARM, all the MOTs, and cancelled further fort construction - and now about same strength as the Wehrmacht line. Interestingly, then some German panzers do arrive at the border and some Luftwaffe base themselves near me. But Barbarossa still did not fire. Maybe I need to disband nearly all of my front line army to get a war here!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I did play historical until avoiding the Great Purge.

You need to use the option forced historical outcome until danzig or War at least. If playing soviet union you should keep the option aktive till barbarossa starts for a fair comparision. Everything lese will seriosly mess up things in your favour. Germany must inherit Austria and Germany must attack Yogusvlia via those former austrian provinces. Early war will make germany decrease the icd invested into the military available in June 1941 a lot.

But the other strange thing about this game is that SU has NO CORES in either Finland, Baltic States or Romania. What removed the cores, I wonder? I'm positive SU has cores there, don't they?

You get those cores via the MR Pact i mentioned earlier.

I guess I should have DOWed Romania too (also in the Axis) to get their 3 provinces that historically SU claims - and then I definitely would have had a Barbarossa!

For a technical Barbarosdsa you need event 20007 GER to fire.

I just looked up the event (#20007, if you're interested) in what I think is the correct file for the vanilla German AI. The triggers on it are fairly complex and involve a lot to do with existing wars and alliances for Germany. I think it also compares Germany's land area compared to the USSR, and does a lot of checks on the ownership of some individual provinces.

It does not compare land area but the army size. The total number of land divisions germany has must be 60% of what soviet union has. Expeditionary forces are inccluded there. So if Germany has 210 divisions by june 1941 soviet union would need 350 divisions. This is easily achieved by spamming Militia. Maybe this bug should be solved for 1.09.

 

[Commander666]

Everything else will seriosly mess up things in your favour.

So, the conclusion is that choosing to not be a dictatorial tyrant - and avoiding the Great Purge - has seriously messed up the game in my favour. That is sad, because I was avoiding the purge to assume a handicap and not get an edge. I figured getting 50% dissent and the impact of that felt for nearly next 2 years was a considerable handicap as it retarded my building capacity, lessened my actual IC while reducing resources, eliminated all following "gearing up for war" events, and caused me to get more dissent DOWing countries that I had cores on and could have probably gone to war via event instead. The fact that I gained by keeping my leaders has nil effect on the building during the early years. So, while I sought handicap to make the game more challenging, it totally backfired by screwing up Germany to invest in less military.

I think that connection is quite wrong. While I'm OK with how the Great Purge event works as affects Russia, it needs to stop there. Whether purge happens or not should have nil effect on what Germany (or rest of the world) do. It is an internal domestic matter and not the same as the world's reaction to other events like the Nanjing Massacre.

You get those cores via the MR Pact.

Understood. And MR pact can not fire if Anschluss is messed up so Austria exists as an Axis member thereby causing the Checks to resist and so starting a war that Poland joins with the result that no Poland exists anymore a year before Molotov and Ribbentrop ever have their meeting to make the pact. While the possibility of same happening probably exists in spite of what Stalin did to his leaders - any linkage between THE GREAT PURGE and any following event firing for any other country should be removed.

For a technical Barbarosdsa you need event 20007 GER to fire. It does not compare land area but the army size.

This is appreciated.

The total number of land divisions germany has must be 60% of what soviet union has. So if Germany has 210 divisions by june 1941 soviet union would need 350 divisions.

So, basically I was right saying "I doubt AI will go to war if it clearly is suicidal".

Maybe this bug should be solved for 1.09.

IMO, this not any bug but an absolutely needed requirement to stop Germany making a suicidal DOW. I don't want this discussed in the context of "Well, IRL Germany lost so what's suicidal?" I mean, looking at the start of war situation and seeing attacker has less that 1:1 odds along whole front line should prevent a DOW happening.

What may be wrong though is the fact that the event is only using the simpler comparison of "needed is 60% of total units that SU has". That alone is poor justification to base a decision upon to commit Barbarossa, or not. A much better decision to do Barbarossa can be obtained if additionally is compared the SU and Germany divisions that border each other as regards determining the initial success of a blitzkrieg. So, perhaps two different counts (and each must pass minimum requirements) would result in the German AI's decision to strike - or not - becoming more intelligent.

Thanks for your input into the discussion.

EDIT:

I may have a solution to save my game. Currently using game reloaded to late May 1941 I now disbanded 36 MOTs (90%), 9 ARM-2 (50%), 8 MTN (50%), 4 NAV (100%), 8 INT (50%) and 3 TPs (30%) plus stopping last land fort construction. That resulted in some new Wehrmacht activity at the border including the appearance of Luftwaffe and panzers. But Barbarossa did not fire. However, I have about 30 Militia units (mostly protecting borders with Turkey, Persia and Japan) that I could further disband to maybe get Germany at 60% of my unit count.

Or maybe I should just DOW Germany instead as per original game and so prove correct my earlier outlandish claim that - with good construction build scheme and proper political decisions - Russia can show the Heer how blitzkrieg really works... and take Berlin within 7 days!

EDIT #2:

I'm wondering if there might not be some additional reason why Barbarossa did not fire in reloaded game where I disbanded much because the comparison of army units (land units only) is SU has 172 and Germany (according to 9 spies) 145. While 9 spies is less than minimum needed of 10 spies to get best estimate, let's say Germany has only 140 land divisions. That gives Germany 140 ÷ 172 = 81%.

Maybe Hitler really is just a coward playing against the Commander?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

So, the conclusion is that choosing to not be a dictatorial tyrant - and avoiding the Great Purge - has seriously messed up the game in my favour.

The purge is irrelevant. It is events like Anschluss where Austria messed things up. What you do is near irrelevant, but you must not allow Austria to reject Anschluss etc.. There is the Option histirical event outcome to prevent such things.

IMO, this not any bug but an absolutely needed requirement to stop Germany making a suicidal DOW.

If building 350 Militia will prevent germany from delcraring war it is a bug.

 

[MagooNZ]

Ah, "to the power of". Got no superscript? I actually don't like using incorrect math symbols and will put a correct divide symbol on this key board if I get into much more math because the forward slash is incorrect too.

Microsoft's Excel software uses ^ as "to the power of". Not sure when or if this was added to the typist's typewriter, before it became a PC keyboard symbol.

Let me give you an example derived from \db\units\division\infantry.txt. First we need to now something about the unit you are upgrading from. Let's assume we want to upgrade Inf1943 to Inf1945.
Advanced Infantry Division (1943) - 5
cost = 7
buildtime = 95
upgrade_time_factor = 0.5
upgrade_cost_factor = 1.0
First we need to now how much it costs to build one Inf1943. Before slider modifiers and minister modifiers apply this would be (7 ic + tech modifier) x (95 days - techmodifier). For example (7 ic - 0.7 ic ) x (95 days - 19 days) = 478.8 icd. For the sake of simplicity no minister modifier is applied. Lets assume -20% from full hawk lobby and no bonus from free markets. Than it will be 478.8 icd x 0.8^2 = 306.432 icd to build one Inf1943. I ignore gearing bonus and retooling as this will not be relevant for the upgrading itself. Now we know how much an Inf1943 costs, next we need to have a look at \db\misc.txt.
Upgrade cost 0.5
Upgrade time 0.9
Now we need to factor in the 4 modifiers from those 2 files and the upgrade costs modifier derived from sliders settings. Let the later be +75% on cost and time. Than upgrading will cost 306.432 icd x 0.5 x 1.0 x 0.5 x 0.9 x 1.75 x 1.75 = 211.1508 icd. Now ne now how much it will cost to upgrade this one division. This it what i refered to as 100% earlier on.
For multiple upgrade steps the earlier steps receice the 4 modifiers(0.5, 1.0, 0.5, 0.9) for each step left. So the reduction per step is not 75%, but 77.5%. I did forget about the minor factor 0.9 if this factor does apply multible times for multible upgrades, too.

Great work here Pang. Much appreciated.

Well, I did enjoy keeping my good leaders. But even if doing the Purge does SU actually not replace most needed leaders by June 1941? I somewhat remember earlier games as SU on older versions and definitely the temporary frustration of losing my favorite leaders… but I really can’t remember there being a big problem come 1941 because of new leaders obtained by then.

Commander, I found accepting the purge usually eliminated either Konev or Zhurkov, and at least one other good tank commander. So I tend to reject the purge.

 

[Commander666]

Microsoft's Excel software uses ^ as "to the power of". Not sure when or if this was added to the typist's typewriter, before it became a PC keyboard symbol.

I think Microsoft certainly has the power to make any new conventions regarding use of symbols. And I agree with old conventions changing if it means improvement. But I'm still a bit confused about using the ^ symbol for "to the power off". Can "to the power off" not be any number? So one can have to the power of 10, or to the power of any other number. So, precisely what power does the ^ represent? I'm guessing that the way Pang used it means to the power of the number preceeding it. For example 6^ means 6x6. 8^ means 8x8. Is that correct? Sorry, we never used that symbol when I was in school.... but I like to learn it. :mellow:

Commander, I found accepting the purge usually eliminated either Konev or Zhurkov, and at least one other good tank commander. So I tend to reject the purge.

That's true. I am actually unsure what I would do about the Purge next time. My greatest concern is the small number of air force Superior Tacticians; and would not want any less because I purged some. There aren't enough anyway come mid-1941.

Well, my SU attacked Germany late 1941 because we didn't like them upgrading their 1939-INF to 1941 standard before we even started that research. But the superior Wehrmacht greatly slowed my break thru attempt because they feed one unit after the next into a gap to keep it closed for much too long - even if attacking the province they are feeding from. Not sure how the AI manages that. It sure made me miss the paratroopers I use playing Germany cause - if I had had some of them - problem fixed.

Once finally thru, soon after the first provinces went frozen... thereby causing the hoped for blitzkrieg to become something slightly less. By then the Luftwaffe had 2/3 of my air force down. But I did start the attack with surprise landings on Danzig and Elbing. But eventually breaking thru to Konigsberg to connect my amphibious landings has almost exhausted my army because of the AI's clever tactics.

How can one Wehrmacht unit attack 30 of mine and delay them for 2 days?
How can they start new attacks on me when I already attacking them?
And how come every time I gain a new province and immediately when those units reach new province I mission them to support some adjacent battle, those units always get attacked before their support mission starts? I though both armies had equal mission delay? Guess the computer reacts faster than the human can and I must not be setting mission the instant my units arrive at new province.

All in all, I retract my hopes of "Berlin in a week." Maybe next year will be more like it.

Basically, I tried sneaking around both sides of Lithuania cause I thought it would be fun letting Lithuania exist. But it makes for the gaps being too narrow - even with Lida taken (which fell first) as that is just another narrow gap until it gets widened. All in all, the AI has done an excellent job very much slowing my advance in spite of me successfully trapping and eliminating quite a few of his divisions.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I think Microsoft certainly has the power to make any new conventions regarding use of symbols. And I agree with old conventions changing if it means improvement. But I'm still a bit confused about using the ^ symbol for "to the power off". Can "to the power off" not be any number? So one can have to the power of 10, or to the power of any other number. So, precisely what power does the ^ represent? I'm guessing that the way Pang used it means to the power of the number preceeding it. For example 6^ means 6x6. 8^ means 8x8. Is that correct? Sorry, we never used that symbol when I was in school.... but I like to learn it. :mellow:

It is (base)^(exponent).
2^0=1
2^0.5= sqrt(2)
2^1=2
2^2=4
2^3=8
2^4=16
2^10=1024
6^3=216

 

[Commander666]

It is (base)^(exponent).
2^0=1
2^0.5= sqrt(2)
2^1=2
2^2=4
2^3=8
2^4=16
2^10=1024
6^3=216

This is interesting... different from usual AoD.

As regards the last six they are standard "to the power off" which is usually (or always was) written using superscript, thereby eliminating need for the ^ symbol and the exponent following the ^ symbol. Personally, 1 think 2² = 4 is a lot simpler and better looking than 2^2 = 4

But I can understand using that symbol ^ for lack of superscript. Of course, exponents written in superscript is as old as math itself... back when people figured with pencil and paper - and could easily write in superscript. The invention of the calculator made multiplication much easier but came with the restriction of how many symbols can be fitted on a small keyboard. So then the ^ symbol meaning that the following number is the exponent makes sense.

However, your first example 2^0 = 1 is wrong I think. You have 2, and are not multiplying by anything (because the exponent is zero, meaning there actually is no exponent), therefore you still have 2. It should be 2^0 = 2

This should not be confused with 2 x 0 which equals zero because anything multiplied by zero = zero. But exponent works differently. Exponent is "how many times the base will be multiplied". In the example 2^0 the exponent simply does not exist. That does not lessen the base which is two.

Interestingly, this then concludes that 2^0 and 2^1 are exactly the same thing because it is NOT 2x0 nor is it 2x1. Rather it is 2 (and not any exponential used) AND IT IS ALSO "2 at the power of 1". Both answers are 2.

Lastly, writing square root as ^0.5 is an interesting use of "exponent" which bends two conventions while still arriving at the correct answer. Again, for lack of proper square root sign on a key board ^0.5 does the job. But the conventions omitted are 1) unconventional symbol and 2) lack of recognition what really is the definition of exponent.

Technically there is no such thing as "half an exponent". That is what is called square root. But 4 ^0.5 = 2 can be typed using any keyboard, and also gets the correct answer for "the square root of 4". However, this new way of redefining exponent to include not only square root but also any other numerical root really is kind of nifty because it will work typed on any key board while giving freedom to write any root value you want.

But occasionally there will be problems. For instance, the cube root of 27 =3. Written in this new style that would be 27 ^0.333 but you could never write the needed "exponent" in full to be precise nor would it ever arrive at the exact answer. So, maybe, the world still needs some of the conventional symbols like the root symbol?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

27^(1/3)=3. It is a simple as that. 2^0=1 is also within usualy conventions as 2^-1=1/2=0.5. Those rules are simply derived from the basic rules for positive integers. It is also possible to generalize further for complex numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponentiation

 

[Commander666]

While I don't agree with you that 2^0=1 is correct (if the exponent is zero, the base remains unchanged) it's quite OK as it don't matter to me and you don't need to try to convince me. I know you think it is correct.

More importantly, I think this topic actually is not allowed in AoD forum. They have some rule about "related to the game" and discussing strictly math here probably not the right Forum.

Anyway, let's get back to my struggling Soviet attack on the Wehrmacht. I have now found proof that the German AI enjoys a definite "timing edge" over the human player of SU.

Here's what happened. I playing SU did the DOW on Germany. So the game was paused. Then I set all my missions. Fortunately I made screen shots of each step. So it happens that I have screen shot of the German AI getting in the first attack. The AI attacked me exactly 2 hours after I DOWed.

WOW! Now I understand why every time I take new province and mission those units to support other battle, my units always get counter-attacked before their support missions kick in. This is one of several differences that are making this German AI a very difficult opponent.

Strangely, I do not remember experiencing that playing as Germany, or UK (v1.08). Anyway, land unit missions are supposed to have a 6 hour delay. And the "Support Attack" mission starts even quicker.

Why does German AI Wehrmacht units only have 2 hour delay do the attack mission? Could it be it only relates to playing as SU against Germany? The Romanians are not giving me similar problems that I noticed so far. And I just can not remember running into this ever before. But the German AI is constantly beating me out of the starting gate.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

AFAIK all AIs only have a 1-2 hour delay in attacking whereas, as you say, humans have a 6 hour delay. I'm not too fussed by it as the AI needs all the help it can get - the bigger issue in this is that the AI performs nonsensical counter-attacks far too often.